How to compute $(mathbbZoplusmathbbZ/dmathbbZ)/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
The following problem astounded me, because I really thought it shouldn't be that hard, but somehow I can't wrap my head around it.
Let $A=mathbbZoplusmathbbZ/dmathbbZ$ for some $dinmathbbN$, as well as $(a,b+dmathbbZ)in A$. Then what is $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$?
I tried to find necessary and sufficient conditions in terms of some modular equations for $(x,y+dmathbbZ)$ to be in $langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$, which of course would give the result by the first isomorphism theorem. One way of doing this would be to use the observation that $(x,y+dmathbbZ)inlangle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ if and only if $a|x$ and $ad|bx-ay$, which gives that $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ is isomorphic to the image of $A$ under $(x,y+dmathbbZ)mapsto(x+amathbbZ,bx-ay+admathbbZ)$, but then I'm stuck at calculating this image.
abstract-algebra group-theory elementary-number-theory abelian-groups quotient-group
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
The following problem astounded me, because I really thought it shouldn't be that hard, but somehow I can't wrap my head around it.
Let $A=mathbbZoplusmathbbZ/dmathbbZ$ for some $dinmathbbN$, as well as $(a,b+dmathbbZ)in A$. Then what is $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$?
I tried to find necessary and sufficient conditions in terms of some modular equations for $(x,y+dmathbbZ)$ to be in $langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$, which of course would give the result by the first isomorphism theorem. One way of doing this would be to use the observation that $(x,y+dmathbbZ)inlangle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ if and only if $a|x$ and $ad|bx-ay$, which gives that $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ is isomorphic to the image of $A$ under $(x,y+dmathbbZ)mapsto(x+amathbbZ,bx-ay+admathbbZ)$, but then I'm stuck at calculating this image.
abstract-algebra group-theory elementary-number-theory abelian-groups quotient-group
I don't know if this helps, but note that $(da,0+dmathbbZ)in N$, so the quotient factors through $(mathbbZ/admathbbZ)times(mathbbZ/dmathbbZ)$.
â Arturo Magidin
May 27 at 20:01
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
The following problem astounded me, because I really thought it shouldn't be that hard, but somehow I can't wrap my head around it.
Let $A=mathbbZoplusmathbbZ/dmathbbZ$ for some $dinmathbbN$, as well as $(a,b+dmathbbZ)in A$. Then what is $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$?
I tried to find necessary and sufficient conditions in terms of some modular equations for $(x,y+dmathbbZ)$ to be in $langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$, which of course would give the result by the first isomorphism theorem. One way of doing this would be to use the observation that $(x,y+dmathbbZ)inlangle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ if and only if $a|x$ and $ad|bx-ay$, which gives that $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ is isomorphic to the image of $A$ under $(x,y+dmathbbZ)mapsto(x+amathbbZ,bx-ay+admathbbZ)$, but then I'm stuck at calculating this image.
abstract-algebra group-theory elementary-number-theory abelian-groups quotient-group
The following problem astounded me, because I really thought it shouldn't be that hard, but somehow I can't wrap my head around it.
Let $A=mathbbZoplusmathbbZ/dmathbbZ$ for some $dinmathbbN$, as well as $(a,b+dmathbbZ)in A$. Then what is $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$?
I tried to find necessary and sufficient conditions in terms of some modular equations for $(x,y+dmathbbZ)$ to be in $langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$, which of course would give the result by the first isomorphism theorem. One way of doing this would be to use the observation that $(x,y+dmathbbZ)inlangle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ if and only if $a|x$ and $ad|bx-ay$, which gives that $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ is isomorphic to the image of $A$ under $(x,y+dmathbbZ)mapsto(x+amathbbZ,bx-ay+admathbbZ)$, but then I'm stuck at calculating this image.
abstract-algebra group-theory elementary-number-theory abelian-groups quotient-group
edited Aug 26 at 10:18
Arnaud Mortier
19.6k22159
19.6k22159
asked May 27 at 19:35
Redundant Aunt
7,14021141
7,14021141
I don't know if this helps, but note that $(da,0+dmathbbZ)in N$, so the quotient factors through $(mathbbZ/admathbbZ)times(mathbbZ/dmathbbZ)$.
â Arturo Magidin
May 27 at 20:01
add a comment |Â
I don't know if this helps, but note that $(da,0+dmathbbZ)in N$, so the quotient factors through $(mathbbZ/admathbbZ)times(mathbbZ/dmathbbZ)$.
â Arturo Magidin
May 27 at 20:01
I don't know if this helps, but note that $(da,0+dmathbbZ)in N$, so the quotient factors through $(mathbbZ/admathbbZ)times(mathbbZ/dmathbbZ)$.
â Arturo Magidin
May 27 at 20:01
I don't know if this helps, but note that $(da,0+dmathbbZ)in N$, so the quotient factors through $(mathbbZ/admathbbZ)times(mathbbZ/dmathbbZ)$.
â Arturo Magidin
May 27 at 20:01
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
The following method applies to any quotient of a finitely generated abelian group.
Call $I=langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle.$ The quotient $A/I$ can be represented in matrix form as $left(matrixa&b\0&dright)$, which is to be read as "$A/I$ is the abelian group generated by $x$ and $y$ subject to the two relations $ax+by=0$ and $dy=0$.
With this point of view, realize that
- $Bbb Z$-invertible row operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of relators, and have no effect on the group described.
- $Bbb Z$-invertible column operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of generators, and have no effect either on the group up to isomorphism, but in this case you need to keep track of the changes realized if you wish to express the generators in the end in terms of the original generators that you started with.
Now, follow the recipe:
- Compute the $gcd$ of $a$, $b$, $d$ (call it $c$).
- Use row and column operations so that $c$ becomes one of the entries.
- Use row and column operations to replace every entry in the same row and column as $c$ with a $0$.
- You end up either with $left(matrixc&0\0&0right)$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z$ (happens when $a=0$), or with $left(matrixc&0\0&c'right)$ for some $c'$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z/c'Bbb Z$.
However, to identify the generators of these factors in the end (in terms of the generators of the initial factors), you need to keep track of the changes of variables performed during column operations.
Note: in the general case, at step 4. you end up with $left(matrixc&0\0&Mright)$ with some submatrix $M$. At this point a factor $Bbb Z/cBbb Z$ splits out and you can start over with $M$.
Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
â N8tron
Jun 14 at 2:33
1
@N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
â Arnaud Mortier
Jun 14 at 2:40
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
The following method applies to any quotient of a finitely generated abelian group.
Call $I=langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle.$ The quotient $A/I$ can be represented in matrix form as $left(matrixa&b\0&dright)$, which is to be read as "$A/I$ is the abelian group generated by $x$ and $y$ subject to the two relations $ax+by=0$ and $dy=0$.
With this point of view, realize that
- $Bbb Z$-invertible row operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of relators, and have no effect on the group described.
- $Bbb Z$-invertible column operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of generators, and have no effect either on the group up to isomorphism, but in this case you need to keep track of the changes realized if you wish to express the generators in the end in terms of the original generators that you started with.
Now, follow the recipe:
- Compute the $gcd$ of $a$, $b$, $d$ (call it $c$).
- Use row and column operations so that $c$ becomes one of the entries.
- Use row and column operations to replace every entry in the same row and column as $c$ with a $0$.
- You end up either with $left(matrixc&0\0&0right)$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z$ (happens when $a=0$), or with $left(matrixc&0\0&c'right)$ for some $c'$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z/c'Bbb Z$.
However, to identify the generators of these factors in the end (in terms of the generators of the initial factors), you need to keep track of the changes of variables performed during column operations.
Note: in the general case, at step 4. you end up with $left(matrixc&0\0&Mright)$ with some submatrix $M$. At this point a factor $Bbb Z/cBbb Z$ splits out and you can start over with $M$.
Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
â N8tron
Jun 14 at 2:33
1
@N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
â Arnaud Mortier
Jun 14 at 2:40
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
The following method applies to any quotient of a finitely generated abelian group.
Call $I=langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle.$ The quotient $A/I$ can be represented in matrix form as $left(matrixa&b\0&dright)$, which is to be read as "$A/I$ is the abelian group generated by $x$ and $y$ subject to the two relations $ax+by=0$ and $dy=0$.
With this point of view, realize that
- $Bbb Z$-invertible row operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of relators, and have no effect on the group described.
- $Bbb Z$-invertible column operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of generators, and have no effect either on the group up to isomorphism, but in this case you need to keep track of the changes realized if you wish to express the generators in the end in terms of the original generators that you started with.
Now, follow the recipe:
- Compute the $gcd$ of $a$, $b$, $d$ (call it $c$).
- Use row and column operations so that $c$ becomes one of the entries.
- Use row and column operations to replace every entry in the same row and column as $c$ with a $0$.
- You end up either with $left(matrixc&0\0&0right)$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z$ (happens when $a=0$), or with $left(matrixc&0\0&c'right)$ for some $c'$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z/c'Bbb Z$.
However, to identify the generators of these factors in the end (in terms of the generators of the initial factors), you need to keep track of the changes of variables performed during column operations.
Note: in the general case, at step 4. you end up with $left(matrixc&0\0&Mright)$ with some submatrix $M$. At this point a factor $Bbb Z/cBbb Z$ splits out and you can start over with $M$.
Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
â N8tron
Jun 14 at 2:33
1
@N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
â Arnaud Mortier
Jun 14 at 2:40
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
up vote
6
down vote
The following method applies to any quotient of a finitely generated abelian group.
Call $I=langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle.$ The quotient $A/I$ can be represented in matrix form as $left(matrixa&b\0&dright)$, which is to be read as "$A/I$ is the abelian group generated by $x$ and $y$ subject to the two relations $ax+by=0$ and $dy=0$.
With this point of view, realize that
- $Bbb Z$-invertible row operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of relators, and have no effect on the group described.
- $Bbb Z$-invertible column operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of generators, and have no effect either on the group up to isomorphism, but in this case you need to keep track of the changes realized if you wish to express the generators in the end in terms of the original generators that you started with.
Now, follow the recipe:
- Compute the $gcd$ of $a$, $b$, $d$ (call it $c$).
- Use row and column operations so that $c$ becomes one of the entries.
- Use row and column operations to replace every entry in the same row and column as $c$ with a $0$.
- You end up either with $left(matrixc&0\0&0right)$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z$ (happens when $a=0$), or with $left(matrixc&0\0&c'right)$ for some $c'$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z/c'Bbb Z$.
However, to identify the generators of these factors in the end (in terms of the generators of the initial factors), you need to keep track of the changes of variables performed during column operations.
Note: in the general case, at step 4. you end up with $left(matrixc&0\0&Mright)$ with some submatrix $M$. At this point a factor $Bbb Z/cBbb Z$ splits out and you can start over with $M$.
The following method applies to any quotient of a finitely generated abelian group.
Call $I=langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle.$ The quotient $A/I$ can be represented in matrix form as $left(matrixa&b\0&dright)$, which is to be read as "$A/I$ is the abelian group generated by $x$ and $y$ subject to the two relations $ax+by=0$ and $dy=0$.
With this point of view, realize that
- $Bbb Z$-invertible row operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of relators, and have no effect on the group described.
- $Bbb Z$-invertible column operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of generators, and have no effect either on the group up to isomorphism, but in this case you need to keep track of the changes realized if you wish to express the generators in the end in terms of the original generators that you started with.
Now, follow the recipe:
- Compute the $gcd$ of $a$, $b$, $d$ (call it $c$).
- Use row and column operations so that $c$ becomes one of the entries.
- Use row and column operations to replace every entry in the same row and column as $c$ with a $0$.
- You end up either with $left(matrixc&0\0&0right)$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z$ (happens when $a=0$), or with $left(matrixc&0\0&c'right)$ for some $c'$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z/c'Bbb Z$.
However, to identify the generators of these factors in the end (in terms of the generators of the initial factors), you need to keep track of the changes of variables performed during column operations.
Note: in the general case, at step 4. you end up with $left(matrixc&0\0&Mright)$ with some submatrix $M$. At this point a factor $Bbb Z/cBbb Z$ splits out and you can start over with $M$.
edited Jun 14 at 2:30
answered May 27 at 20:38
Arnaud Mortier
19.6k22159
19.6k22159
Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
â N8tron
Jun 14 at 2:33
1
@N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
â Arnaud Mortier
Jun 14 at 2:40
add a comment |Â
Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
â N8tron
Jun 14 at 2:33
1
@N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
â Arnaud Mortier
Jun 14 at 2:40
Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
â N8tron
Jun 14 at 2:33
Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
â N8tron
Jun 14 at 2:33
1
1
@N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
â Arnaud Mortier
Jun 14 at 2:40
@N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
â Arnaud Mortier
Jun 14 at 2:40
add a comment |Â
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2798400%2fhow-to-compute-mathbbz-oplus-mathbbz-d-mathbbz-langlea-bd-mathbbz%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
I don't know if this helps, but note that $(da,0+dmathbbZ)in N$, so the quotient factors through $(mathbbZ/admathbbZ)times(mathbbZ/dmathbbZ)$.
â Arturo Magidin
May 27 at 20:01