How to compute $(mathbbZoplusmathbbZ/dmathbbZ)/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$?

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The following problem astounded me, because I really thought it shouldn't be that hard, but somehow I can't wrap my head around it.



Let $A=mathbbZoplusmathbbZ/dmathbbZ$ for some $dinmathbbN$, as well as $(a,b+dmathbbZ)in A$. Then what is $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$?



I tried to find necessary and sufficient conditions in terms of some modular equations for $(x,y+dmathbbZ)$ to be in $langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$, which of course would give the result by the first isomorphism theorem. One way of doing this would be to use the observation that $(x,y+dmathbbZ)inlangle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ if and only if $a|x$ and $ad|bx-ay$, which gives that $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ is isomorphic to the image of $A$ under $(x,y+dmathbbZ)mapsto(x+amathbbZ,bx-ay+admathbbZ)$, but then I'm stuck at calculating this image.







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  • I don't know if this helps, but note that $(da,0+dmathbbZ)in N$, so the quotient factors through $(mathbbZ/admathbbZ)times(mathbbZ/dmathbbZ)$.
    – Arturo Magidin
    May 27 at 20:01















up vote
4
down vote

favorite
4












The following problem astounded me, because I really thought it shouldn't be that hard, but somehow I can't wrap my head around it.



Let $A=mathbbZoplusmathbbZ/dmathbbZ$ for some $dinmathbbN$, as well as $(a,b+dmathbbZ)in A$. Then what is $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$?



I tried to find necessary and sufficient conditions in terms of some modular equations for $(x,y+dmathbbZ)$ to be in $langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$, which of course would give the result by the first isomorphism theorem. One way of doing this would be to use the observation that $(x,y+dmathbbZ)inlangle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ if and only if $a|x$ and $ad|bx-ay$, which gives that $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ is isomorphic to the image of $A$ under $(x,y+dmathbbZ)mapsto(x+amathbbZ,bx-ay+admathbbZ)$, but then I'm stuck at calculating this image.







share|cite|improve this question






















  • I don't know if this helps, but note that $(da,0+dmathbbZ)in N$, so the quotient factors through $(mathbbZ/admathbbZ)times(mathbbZ/dmathbbZ)$.
    – Arturo Magidin
    May 27 at 20:01













up vote
4
down vote

favorite
4









up vote
4
down vote

favorite
4






4





The following problem astounded me, because I really thought it shouldn't be that hard, but somehow I can't wrap my head around it.



Let $A=mathbbZoplusmathbbZ/dmathbbZ$ for some $dinmathbbN$, as well as $(a,b+dmathbbZ)in A$. Then what is $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$?



I tried to find necessary and sufficient conditions in terms of some modular equations for $(x,y+dmathbbZ)$ to be in $langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$, which of course would give the result by the first isomorphism theorem. One way of doing this would be to use the observation that $(x,y+dmathbbZ)inlangle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ if and only if $a|x$ and $ad|bx-ay$, which gives that $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ is isomorphic to the image of $A$ under $(x,y+dmathbbZ)mapsto(x+amathbbZ,bx-ay+admathbbZ)$, but then I'm stuck at calculating this image.







share|cite|improve this question














The following problem astounded me, because I really thought it shouldn't be that hard, but somehow I can't wrap my head around it.



Let $A=mathbbZoplusmathbbZ/dmathbbZ$ for some $dinmathbbN$, as well as $(a,b+dmathbbZ)in A$. Then what is $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$?



I tried to find necessary and sufficient conditions in terms of some modular equations for $(x,y+dmathbbZ)$ to be in $langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$, which of course would give the result by the first isomorphism theorem. One way of doing this would be to use the observation that $(x,y+dmathbbZ)inlangle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ if and only if $a|x$ and $ad|bx-ay$, which gives that $A/langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle$ is isomorphic to the image of $A$ under $(x,y+dmathbbZ)mapsto(x+amathbbZ,bx-ay+admathbbZ)$, but then I'm stuck at calculating this image.









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edited Aug 26 at 10:18









Arnaud Mortier

19.6k22159




19.6k22159










asked May 27 at 19:35









Redundant Aunt

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  • I don't know if this helps, but note that $(da,0+dmathbbZ)in N$, so the quotient factors through $(mathbbZ/admathbbZ)times(mathbbZ/dmathbbZ)$.
    – Arturo Magidin
    May 27 at 20:01

















  • I don't know if this helps, but note that $(da,0+dmathbbZ)in N$, so the quotient factors through $(mathbbZ/admathbbZ)times(mathbbZ/dmathbbZ)$.
    – Arturo Magidin
    May 27 at 20:01
















I don't know if this helps, but note that $(da,0+dmathbbZ)in N$, so the quotient factors through $(mathbbZ/admathbbZ)times(mathbbZ/dmathbbZ)$.
– Arturo Magidin
May 27 at 20:01





I don't know if this helps, but note that $(da,0+dmathbbZ)in N$, so the quotient factors through $(mathbbZ/admathbbZ)times(mathbbZ/dmathbbZ)$.
– Arturo Magidin
May 27 at 20:01











1 Answer
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up vote
6
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The following method applies to any quotient of a finitely generated abelian group.



Call $I=langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle.$ The quotient $A/I$ can be represented in matrix form as $left(matrixa&b\0&dright)$, which is to be read as "$A/I$ is the abelian group generated by $x$ and $y$ subject to the two relations $ax+by=0$ and $dy=0$.



With this point of view, realize that



  • $Bbb Z$-invertible row operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of relators, and have no effect on the group described.

  • $Bbb Z$-invertible column operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of generators, and have no effect either on the group up to isomorphism, but in this case you need to keep track of the changes realized if you wish to express the generators in the end in terms of the original generators that you started with.

Now, follow the recipe:



  1. Compute the $gcd$ of $a$, $b$, $d$ (call it $c$).

  2. Use row and column operations so that $c$ becomes one of the entries.

  3. Use row and column operations to replace every entry in the same row and column as $c$ with a $0$.

  4. You end up either with $left(matrixc&0\0&0right)$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z$ (happens when $a=0$), or with $left(matrixc&0\0&c'right)$ for some $c'$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z/c'Bbb Z$.

However, to identify the generators of these factors in the end (in terms of the generators of the initial factors), you need to keep track of the changes of variables performed during column operations.




Note: in the general case, at step 4. you end up with $left(matrixc&0\0&Mright)$ with some submatrix $M$. At this point a factor $Bbb Z/cBbb Z$ splits out and you can start over with $M$.






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  • Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
    – N8tron
    Jun 14 at 2:33






  • 1




    @N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
    – Arnaud Mortier
    Jun 14 at 2:40










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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
6
down vote













The following method applies to any quotient of a finitely generated abelian group.



Call $I=langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle.$ The quotient $A/I$ can be represented in matrix form as $left(matrixa&b\0&dright)$, which is to be read as "$A/I$ is the abelian group generated by $x$ and $y$ subject to the two relations $ax+by=0$ and $dy=0$.



With this point of view, realize that



  • $Bbb Z$-invertible row operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of relators, and have no effect on the group described.

  • $Bbb Z$-invertible column operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of generators, and have no effect either on the group up to isomorphism, but in this case you need to keep track of the changes realized if you wish to express the generators in the end in terms of the original generators that you started with.

Now, follow the recipe:



  1. Compute the $gcd$ of $a$, $b$, $d$ (call it $c$).

  2. Use row and column operations so that $c$ becomes one of the entries.

  3. Use row and column operations to replace every entry in the same row and column as $c$ with a $0$.

  4. You end up either with $left(matrixc&0\0&0right)$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z$ (happens when $a=0$), or with $left(matrixc&0\0&c'right)$ for some $c'$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z/c'Bbb Z$.

However, to identify the generators of these factors in the end (in terms of the generators of the initial factors), you need to keep track of the changes of variables performed during column operations.




Note: in the general case, at step 4. you end up with $left(matrixc&0\0&Mright)$ with some submatrix $M$. At this point a factor $Bbb Z/cBbb Z$ splits out and you can start over with $M$.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
    – N8tron
    Jun 14 at 2:33






  • 1




    @N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
    – Arnaud Mortier
    Jun 14 at 2:40














up vote
6
down vote













The following method applies to any quotient of a finitely generated abelian group.



Call $I=langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle.$ The quotient $A/I$ can be represented in matrix form as $left(matrixa&b\0&dright)$, which is to be read as "$A/I$ is the abelian group generated by $x$ and $y$ subject to the two relations $ax+by=0$ and $dy=0$.



With this point of view, realize that



  • $Bbb Z$-invertible row operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of relators, and have no effect on the group described.

  • $Bbb Z$-invertible column operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of generators, and have no effect either on the group up to isomorphism, but in this case you need to keep track of the changes realized if you wish to express the generators in the end in terms of the original generators that you started with.

Now, follow the recipe:



  1. Compute the $gcd$ of $a$, $b$, $d$ (call it $c$).

  2. Use row and column operations so that $c$ becomes one of the entries.

  3. Use row and column operations to replace every entry in the same row and column as $c$ with a $0$.

  4. You end up either with $left(matrixc&0\0&0right)$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z$ (happens when $a=0$), or with $left(matrixc&0\0&c'right)$ for some $c'$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z/c'Bbb Z$.

However, to identify the generators of these factors in the end (in terms of the generators of the initial factors), you need to keep track of the changes of variables performed during column operations.




Note: in the general case, at step 4. you end up with $left(matrixc&0\0&Mright)$ with some submatrix $M$. At this point a factor $Bbb Z/cBbb Z$ splits out and you can start over with $M$.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
    – N8tron
    Jun 14 at 2:33






  • 1




    @N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
    – Arnaud Mortier
    Jun 14 at 2:40












up vote
6
down vote










up vote
6
down vote









The following method applies to any quotient of a finitely generated abelian group.



Call $I=langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle.$ The quotient $A/I$ can be represented in matrix form as $left(matrixa&b\0&dright)$, which is to be read as "$A/I$ is the abelian group generated by $x$ and $y$ subject to the two relations $ax+by=0$ and $dy=0$.



With this point of view, realize that



  • $Bbb Z$-invertible row operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of relators, and have no effect on the group described.

  • $Bbb Z$-invertible column operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of generators, and have no effect either on the group up to isomorphism, but in this case you need to keep track of the changes realized if you wish to express the generators in the end in terms of the original generators that you started with.

Now, follow the recipe:



  1. Compute the $gcd$ of $a$, $b$, $d$ (call it $c$).

  2. Use row and column operations so that $c$ becomes one of the entries.

  3. Use row and column operations to replace every entry in the same row and column as $c$ with a $0$.

  4. You end up either with $left(matrixc&0\0&0right)$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z$ (happens when $a=0$), or with $left(matrixc&0\0&c'right)$ for some $c'$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z/c'Bbb Z$.

However, to identify the generators of these factors in the end (in terms of the generators of the initial factors), you need to keep track of the changes of variables performed during column operations.




Note: in the general case, at step 4. you end up with $left(matrixc&0\0&Mright)$ with some submatrix $M$. At this point a factor $Bbb Z/cBbb Z$ splits out and you can start over with $M$.






share|cite|improve this answer














The following method applies to any quotient of a finitely generated abelian group.



Call $I=langle(a,b+dmathbbZ)rangle.$ The quotient $A/I$ can be represented in matrix form as $left(matrixa&b\0&dright)$, which is to be read as "$A/I$ is the abelian group generated by $x$ and $y$ subject to the two relations $ax+by=0$ and $dy=0$.



With this point of view, realize that



  • $Bbb Z$-invertible row operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of relators, and have no effect on the group described.

  • $Bbb Z$-invertible column operations correspond to changes of variables on the space of generators, and have no effect either on the group up to isomorphism, but in this case you need to keep track of the changes realized if you wish to express the generators in the end in terms of the original generators that you started with.

Now, follow the recipe:



  1. Compute the $gcd$ of $a$, $b$, $d$ (call it $c$).

  2. Use row and column operations so that $c$ becomes one of the entries.

  3. Use row and column operations to replace every entry in the same row and column as $c$ with a $0$.

  4. You end up either with $left(matrixc&0\0&0right)$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z$ (happens when $a=0$), or with $left(matrixc&0\0&c'right)$ for some $c'$ and your quotient group is $Bbb Z/cBbb Zoplus Bbb Z/c'Bbb Z$.

However, to identify the generators of these factors in the end (in terms of the generators of the initial factors), you need to keep track of the changes of variables performed during column operations.




Note: in the general case, at step 4. you end up with $left(matrixc&0\0&Mright)$ with some submatrix $M$. At this point a factor $Bbb Z/cBbb Z$ splits out and you can start over with $M$.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Jun 14 at 2:30

























answered May 27 at 20:38









Arnaud Mortier

19.6k22159




19.6k22159











  • Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
    – N8tron
    Jun 14 at 2:33






  • 1




    @N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
    – Arnaud Mortier
    Jun 14 at 2:40
















  • Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
    – N8tron
    Jun 14 at 2:33






  • 1




    @N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
    – Arnaud Mortier
    Jun 14 at 2:40















Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
– N8tron
Jun 14 at 2:33




Are you effectively computing the smith normal form of this matrix?
– N8tron
Jun 14 at 2:33




1




1




@N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
– Arnaud Mortier
Jun 14 at 2:40




@N8tron Absolutely. Behind the curtain, over a general PID, this is the way to obtain the invariant factors of a matrix, and the invariant factors of the presentation matrix are the invariant factors of the group in the present case.
– Arnaud Mortier
Jun 14 at 2:40

















 

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