Let $H_n$ be independent and $sigma(B_1, B_2, …) subseteq sigma(H_1, H_2, …)$. What conditions do we have $B_n$ independent?

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Definition of a block of events:




Let $(Omega, mathscr F, mathbb P)$ be a probability space. Consider the collection of events $H_n_n ge 1$. Define a block of $H_n_n ge 1$ to be an event of the form $$A_f(n) = bigcap_i=1^f(g(n)) H_n+i$$




Now consider the following examples of independence of a collection of blocks which would lead to succeeding/subsequent (correct my grammar!) questions of independence of something I call sub-events:




On independence of a collection of blocks:




Let $(Omega, mathscr F, mathbb P)$ be a probability space.



Let $H_n_n ge 1$ be independent coin tossing, i.e. $H_n = $nth coin is heads$$, and let $$A_n = bigcap_i=1^g(n) H_n+i$$



represent a block of coin tossing, where $g(n) = left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor$



We can show that



  1. The collection of blocks $$A_f(n)_n ge 1,$$ where $f(n) = n$, is not independent (see here).


  2. The collection of blocks $$B_n = A_f(n)_n ge 1,$$ where $f(n) = left lfloor nlog_2 n^2 right rfloor$, is independent (see here).


  3. The collection of blocks $$C_n = A_f(n)_n ge 1,$$ where $f(n) = left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor$, is not independent (see here). Note that:


$$C_n = H_n+1 cap H_n+2 cap dots cap H_n+ left lfloor log_2 left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor right rfloor = bigcap_i=1^left lfloor log_2 left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor right rfloor H_n+i = A_left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor$$



  1. Now, collection of blocks $A_f(n)_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events if $A_f(n)_n ge 1$ is a collection of pairwise independent events, i.e. if $$f(n) + g(f(n)) < f(n+1) + 1,$$ then $A_f(n)_n ge 1$ is independent (see here).



Definition of a sub-event, a $sigma$-algebra that is generated by events and that is a sub-$sigma$-algebra of a $sigma$-algebra generated by events:




Let $(Omega, mathscr F, mathbb P)$ be a probability space. Consider the 2 collections of events $H_n_n ge 1$ and $B_n_n ge 1$. I define the collection $B_n_n ge 1$ to sub-event of $H_n_n ge 1$ if $B_n_n ge 1$'s $sigma$-algebra is a subset of the $H_n_n ge 1$'s $sigma$-algebra, i.e. $$sigma(B_1, B_2, ...) subseteq sigma(H_1, H_2, ...).$$





Proposition: A collection of blocks of $B_n_n ge 1$ is a sub-event of $H_n_n ge 1$.






Questions on independence of events in a sub-event:




Let $B_n_n ge 1$ be a sub-event of the collection of independent events $H_n_n ge 1$. I believe we do not necessarily have that $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events. Otherwise, I wasted 50 reputation points on this bounty.



  1. What conditions are there to say that a sub-event $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events?

For example, can we say similar to (4) above that a sub-event $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events if $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of pairwise independent events? Or if $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of pairwise independent events, and the events independent to $B_n$ form an algebra for any $n$? I'm thinking that for blocks $A_f(n)$, perhaps it can be shown that if the blocks are pairwise independent, i.e. $f(n) + g(f(n)) < f(n+1) + 1,$ then the events independent to the blocks $A_f(n)$ form an algebra/a $sigma$-algebra? Then we somehow extend this to sub-event.



  1. What conditions are there to say that a sub-event $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of $k$-wise independent events?


Possibly related questions:



Kolmogorov 0-1 Law Converse?



Choosing the correct subsequence of events s.t. sum of probabilities of events diverge



$sigma$-algebra of independent $sigma$-algebras is independent










share|cite|improve this question



















  • 1




    The question in the title is meaningless. $B_n=B$ for all $n$ with $B in sigma (H_1,H_2,...)$ ($0<P(B)<1$) is an obvious counter-example . It makes no sense for anyone to read all the stuff that the OP has written when the title is meaningless. That is the reason he question has not received any attention. Either the title should be changed or the post should be voted for closure.
    – Kavi Rama Murthy
    Sep 5 at 7:35











  • @KaviRamaMurthy edited thanks!
    – BCLC
    Sep 6 at 0:53














up vote
1
down vote

favorite
1













Definition of a block of events:




Let $(Omega, mathscr F, mathbb P)$ be a probability space. Consider the collection of events $H_n_n ge 1$. Define a block of $H_n_n ge 1$ to be an event of the form $$A_f(n) = bigcap_i=1^f(g(n)) H_n+i$$




Now consider the following examples of independence of a collection of blocks which would lead to succeeding/subsequent (correct my grammar!) questions of independence of something I call sub-events:




On independence of a collection of blocks:




Let $(Omega, mathscr F, mathbb P)$ be a probability space.



Let $H_n_n ge 1$ be independent coin tossing, i.e. $H_n = $nth coin is heads$$, and let $$A_n = bigcap_i=1^g(n) H_n+i$$



represent a block of coin tossing, where $g(n) = left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor$



We can show that



  1. The collection of blocks $$A_f(n)_n ge 1,$$ where $f(n) = n$, is not independent (see here).


  2. The collection of blocks $$B_n = A_f(n)_n ge 1,$$ where $f(n) = left lfloor nlog_2 n^2 right rfloor$, is independent (see here).


  3. The collection of blocks $$C_n = A_f(n)_n ge 1,$$ where $f(n) = left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor$, is not independent (see here). Note that:


$$C_n = H_n+1 cap H_n+2 cap dots cap H_n+ left lfloor log_2 left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor right rfloor = bigcap_i=1^left lfloor log_2 left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor right rfloor H_n+i = A_left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor$$



  1. Now, collection of blocks $A_f(n)_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events if $A_f(n)_n ge 1$ is a collection of pairwise independent events, i.e. if $$f(n) + g(f(n)) < f(n+1) + 1,$$ then $A_f(n)_n ge 1$ is independent (see here).



Definition of a sub-event, a $sigma$-algebra that is generated by events and that is a sub-$sigma$-algebra of a $sigma$-algebra generated by events:




Let $(Omega, mathscr F, mathbb P)$ be a probability space. Consider the 2 collections of events $H_n_n ge 1$ and $B_n_n ge 1$. I define the collection $B_n_n ge 1$ to sub-event of $H_n_n ge 1$ if $B_n_n ge 1$'s $sigma$-algebra is a subset of the $H_n_n ge 1$'s $sigma$-algebra, i.e. $$sigma(B_1, B_2, ...) subseteq sigma(H_1, H_2, ...).$$





Proposition: A collection of blocks of $B_n_n ge 1$ is a sub-event of $H_n_n ge 1$.






Questions on independence of events in a sub-event:




Let $B_n_n ge 1$ be a sub-event of the collection of independent events $H_n_n ge 1$. I believe we do not necessarily have that $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events. Otherwise, I wasted 50 reputation points on this bounty.



  1. What conditions are there to say that a sub-event $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events?

For example, can we say similar to (4) above that a sub-event $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events if $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of pairwise independent events? Or if $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of pairwise independent events, and the events independent to $B_n$ form an algebra for any $n$? I'm thinking that for blocks $A_f(n)$, perhaps it can be shown that if the blocks are pairwise independent, i.e. $f(n) + g(f(n)) < f(n+1) + 1,$ then the events independent to the blocks $A_f(n)$ form an algebra/a $sigma$-algebra? Then we somehow extend this to sub-event.



  1. What conditions are there to say that a sub-event $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of $k$-wise independent events?


Possibly related questions:



Kolmogorov 0-1 Law Converse?



Choosing the correct subsequence of events s.t. sum of probabilities of events diverge



$sigma$-algebra of independent $sigma$-algebras is independent










share|cite|improve this question



















  • 1




    The question in the title is meaningless. $B_n=B$ for all $n$ with $B in sigma (H_1,H_2,...)$ ($0<P(B)<1$) is an obvious counter-example . It makes no sense for anyone to read all the stuff that the OP has written when the title is meaningless. That is the reason he question has not received any attention. Either the title should be changed or the post should be voted for closure.
    – Kavi Rama Murthy
    Sep 5 at 7:35











  • @KaviRamaMurthy edited thanks!
    – BCLC
    Sep 6 at 0:53












up vote
1
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
1
down vote

favorite
1






1






Definition of a block of events:




Let $(Omega, mathscr F, mathbb P)$ be a probability space. Consider the collection of events $H_n_n ge 1$. Define a block of $H_n_n ge 1$ to be an event of the form $$A_f(n) = bigcap_i=1^f(g(n)) H_n+i$$




Now consider the following examples of independence of a collection of blocks which would lead to succeeding/subsequent (correct my grammar!) questions of independence of something I call sub-events:




On independence of a collection of blocks:




Let $(Omega, mathscr F, mathbb P)$ be a probability space.



Let $H_n_n ge 1$ be independent coin tossing, i.e. $H_n = $nth coin is heads$$, and let $$A_n = bigcap_i=1^g(n) H_n+i$$



represent a block of coin tossing, where $g(n) = left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor$



We can show that



  1. The collection of blocks $$A_f(n)_n ge 1,$$ where $f(n) = n$, is not independent (see here).


  2. The collection of blocks $$B_n = A_f(n)_n ge 1,$$ where $f(n) = left lfloor nlog_2 n^2 right rfloor$, is independent (see here).


  3. The collection of blocks $$C_n = A_f(n)_n ge 1,$$ where $f(n) = left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor$, is not independent (see here). Note that:


$$C_n = H_n+1 cap H_n+2 cap dots cap H_n+ left lfloor log_2 left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor right rfloor = bigcap_i=1^left lfloor log_2 left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor right rfloor H_n+i = A_left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor$$



  1. Now, collection of blocks $A_f(n)_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events if $A_f(n)_n ge 1$ is a collection of pairwise independent events, i.e. if $$f(n) + g(f(n)) < f(n+1) + 1,$$ then $A_f(n)_n ge 1$ is independent (see here).



Definition of a sub-event, a $sigma$-algebra that is generated by events and that is a sub-$sigma$-algebra of a $sigma$-algebra generated by events:




Let $(Omega, mathscr F, mathbb P)$ be a probability space. Consider the 2 collections of events $H_n_n ge 1$ and $B_n_n ge 1$. I define the collection $B_n_n ge 1$ to sub-event of $H_n_n ge 1$ if $B_n_n ge 1$'s $sigma$-algebra is a subset of the $H_n_n ge 1$'s $sigma$-algebra, i.e. $$sigma(B_1, B_2, ...) subseteq sigma(H_1, H_2, ...).$$





Proposition: A collection of blocks of $B_n_n ge 1$ is a sub-event of $H_n_n ge 1$.






Questions on independence of events in a sub-event:




Let $B_n_n ge 1$ be a sub-event of the collection of independent events $H_n_n ge 1$. I believe we do not necessarily have that $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events. Otherwise, I wasted 50 reputation points on this bounty.



  1. What conditions are there to say that a sub-event $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events?

For example, can we say similar to (4) above that a sub-event $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events if $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of pairwise independent events? Or if $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of pairwise independent events, and the events independent to $B_n$ form an algebra for any $n$? I'm thinking that for blocks $A_f(n)$, perhaps it can be shown that if the blocks are pairwise independent, i.e. $f(n) + g(f(n)) < f(n+1) + 1,$ then the events independent to the blocks $A_f(n)$ form an algebra/a $sigma$-algebra? Then we somehow extend this to sub-event.



  1. What conditions are there to say that a sub-event $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of $k$-wise independent events?


Possibly related questions:



Kolmogorov 0-1 Law Converse?



Choosing the correct subsequence of events s.t. sum of probabilities of events diverge



$sigma$-algebra of independent $sigma$-algebras is independent










share|cite|improve this question
















Definition of a block of events:




Let $(Omega, mathscr F, mathbb P)$ be a probability space. Consider the collection of events $H_n_n ge 1$. Define a block of $H_n_n ge 1$ to be an event of the form $$A_f(n) = bigcap_i=1^f(g(n)) H_n+i$$




Now consider the following examples of independence of a collection of blocks which would lead to succeeding/subsequent (correct my grammar!) questions of independence of something I call sub-events:




On independence of a collection of blocks:




Let $(Omega, mathscr F, mathbb P)$ be a probability space.



Let $H_n_n ge 1$ be independent coin tossing, i.e. $H_n = $nth coin is heads$$, and let $$A_n = bigcap_i=1^g(n) H_n+i$$



represent a block of coin tossing, where $g(n) = left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor$



We can show that



  1. The collection of blocks $$A_f(n)_n ge 1,$$ where $f(n) = n$, is not independent (see here).


  2. The collection of blocks $$B_n = A_f(n)_n ge 1,$$ where $f(n) = left lfloor nlog_2 n^2 right rfloor$, is independent (see here).


  3. The collection of blocks $$C_n = A_f(n)_n ge 1,$$ where $f(n) = left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor$, is not independent (see here). Note that:


$$C_n = H_n+1 cap H_n+2 cap dots cap H_n+ left lfloor log_2 left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor right rfloor = bigcap_i=1^left lfloor log_2 left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor right rfloor H_n+i = A_left lfloor log_2 n right rfloor$$



  1. Now, collection of blocks $A_f(n)_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events if $A_f(n)_n ge 1$ is a collection of pairwise independent events, i.e. if $$f(n) + g(f(n)) < f(n+1) + 1,$$ then $A_f(n)_n ge 1$ is independent (see here).



Definition of a sub-event, a $sigma$-algebra that is generated by events and that is a sub-$sigma$-algebra of a $sigma$-algebra generated by events:




Let $(Omega, mathscr F, mathbb P)$ be a probability space. Consider the 2 collections of events $H_n_n ge 1$ and $B_n_n ge 1$. I define the collection $B_n_n ge 1$ to sub-event of $H_n_n ge 1$ if $B_n_n ge 1$'s $sigma$-algebra is a subset of the $H_n_n ge 1$'s $sigma$-algebra, i.e. $$sigma(B_1, B_2, ...) subseteq sigma(H_1, H_2, ...).$$





Proposition: A collection of blocks of $B_n_n ge 1$ is a sub-event of $H_n_n ge 1$.






Questions on independence of events in a sub-event:




Let $B_n_n ge 1$ be a sub-event of the collection of independent events $H_n_n ge 1$. I believe we do not necessarily have that $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events. Otherwise, I wasted 50 reputation points on this bounty.



  1. What conditions are there to say that a sub-event $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events?

For example, can we say similar to (4) above that a sub-event $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of independent events if $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of pairwise independent events? Or if $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of pairwise independent events, and the events independent to $B_n$ form an algebra for any $n$? I'm thinking that for blocks $A_f(n)$, perhaps it can be shown that if the blocks are pairwise independent, i.e. $f(n) + g(f(n)) < f(n+1) + 1,$ then the events independent to the blocks $A_f(n)$ form an algebra/a $sigma$-algebra? Then we somehow extend this to sub-event.



  1. What conditions are there to say that a sub-event $B_n_n ge 1$ is a collection of $k$-wise independent events?


Possibly related questions:



Kolmogorov 0-1 Law Converse?



Choosing the correct subsequence of events s.t. sum of probabilities of events diverge



$sigma$-algebra of independent $sigma$-algebras is independent







real-analysis sequences-and-series probability-theory measure-theory independence






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share|cite|improve this question













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edited Sep 6 at 0:53

























asked Apr 20 at 23:29









BCLC

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  • 1




    The question in the title is meaningless. $B_n=B$ for all $n$ with $B in sigma (H_1,H_2,...)$ ($0<P(B)<1$) is an obvious counter-example . It makes no sense for anyone to read all the stuff that the OP has written when the title is meaningless. That is the reason he question has not received any attention. Either the title should be changed or the post should be voted for closure.
    – Kavi Rama Murthy
    Sep 5 at 7:35











  • @KaviRamaMurthy edited thanks!
    – BCLC
    Sep 6 at 0:53












  • 1




    The question in the title is meaningless. $B_n=B$ for all $n$ with $B in sigma (H_1,H_2,...)$ ($0<P(B)<1$) is an obvious counter-example . It makes no sense for anyone to read all the stuff that the OP has written when the title is meaningless. That is the reason he question has not received any attention. Either the title should be changed or the post should be voted for closure.
    – Kavi Rama Murthy
    Sep 5 at 7:35











  • @KaviRamaMurthy edited thanks!
    – BCLC
    Sep 6 at 0:53







1




1




The question in the title is meaningless. $B_n=B$ for all $n$ with $B in sigma (H_1,H_2,...)$ ($0<P(B)<1$) is an obvious counter-example . It makes no sense for anyone to read all the stuff that the OP has written when the title is meaningless. That is the reason he question has not received any attention. Either the title should be changed or the post should be voted for closure.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
Sep 5 at 7:35





The question in the title is meaningless. $B_n=B$ for all $n$ with $B in sigma (H_1,H_2,...)$ ($0<P(B)<1$) is an obvious counter-example . It makes no sense for anyone to read all the stuff that the OP has written when the title is meaningless. That is the reason he question has not received any attention. Either the title should be changed or the post should be voted for closure.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
Sep 5 at 7:35













@KaviRamaMurthy edited thanks!
– BCLC
Sep 6 at 0:53




@KaviRamaMurthy edited thanks!
– BCLC
Sep 6 at 0:53















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