Determine the variance of estimator T

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
1
down vote

favorite












I'm having trouble figuring out how to find the variance of the following estimator.



Let $X_1,X_2,...,X_n$ denote random sample from a population which has a normal distribution with unknown mean $mu$ and unknown variance $sigma^2$. The statistic below is an estimator for $sigma^2$, where $c$ is a constant.



$$T_c = sum_j=1^n frac(X_j - bar X)^2c$$



I found the expectation of $T_c$ to be $fracsigma^2(n-1)c$ using the definition of $T_c$, however I am stumped over how to determine the $Var(T_c)$.



I started to try to determine it like so but got stuck:



$operatornameVar(T_c) = mathbb E (T_c^2)+ mathbb E (T_c)^2$



$operatornameVar(T_c) = mathbb E ((sum_j=1^n frac(X_j - bar X)^2c)^2) + fracsigma^2(n-1)c$



Any tips/solutions?










share|cite|improve this question























  • Hi, welcome to math.SE. You can get displayed equations by enclosing them in double instead of single dollar signs; that makes them a lot easier to read, especially when you're mixing fractions, subscripts and superscripts. You can also get proper formatting for operators like $operatornameVar$ by using operatornameVar. For more information on how to typeset math on this site, please see this tutorial and reference.
    – joriki
    Aug 30 at 7:02










  • Hi, are the samples independants ? since they are normal it would be represented by the fact that the covariance is $0$ for different samples.
    – P. Quinton
    Aug 30 at 7:56










  • Anyway you can always write $X_j-barX$ as a Gaussian random variable (because a sum of jointly Gaussians RVs is a Gaussian RV), then you would need to determine the covariance between any two of those. Finally you can apply the method in this post math.stackexchange.com/questions/442472/…
    – P. Quinton
    Aug 30 at 7:59















up vote
1
down vote

favorite












I'm having trouble figuring out how to find the variance of the following estimator.



Let $X_1,X_2,...,X_n$ denote random sample from a population which has a normal distribution with unknown mean $mu$ and unknown variance $sigma^2$. The statistic below is an estimator for $sigma^2$, where $c$ is a constant.



$$T_c = sum_j=1^n frac(X_j - bar X)^2c$$



I found the expectation of $T_c$ to be $fracsigma^2(n-1)c$ using the definition of $T_c$, however I am stumped over how to determine the $Var(T_c)$.



I started to try to determine it like so but got stuck:



$operatornameVar(T_c) = mathbb E (T_c^2)+ mathbb E (T_c)^2$



$operatornameVar(T_c) = mathbb E ((sum_j=1^n frac(X_j - bar X)^2c)^2) + fracsigma^2(n-1)c$



Any tips/solutions?










share|cite|improve this question























  • Hi, welcome to math.SE. You can get displayed equations by enclosing them in double instead of single dollar signs; that makes them a lot easier to read, especially when you're mixing fractions, subscripts and superscripts. You can also get proper formatting for operators like $operatornameVar$ by using operatornameVar. For more information on how to typeset math on this site, please see this tutorial and reference.
    – joriki
    Aug 30 at 7:02










  • Hi, are the samples independants ? since they are normal it would be represented by the fact that the covariance is $0$ for different samples.
    – P. Quinton
    Aug 30 at 7:56










  • Anyway you can always write $X_j-barX$ as a Gaussian random variable (because a sum of jointly Gaussians RVs is a Gaussian RV), then you would need to determine the covariance between any two of those. Finally you can apply the method in this post math.stackexchange.com/questions/442472/…
    – P. Quinton
    Aug 30 at 7:59













up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











I'm having trouble figuring out how to find the variance of the following estimator.



Let $X_1,X_2,...,X_n$ denote random sample from a population which has a normal distribution with unknown mean $mu$ and unknown variance $sigma^2$. The statistic below is an estimator for $sigma^2$, where $c$ is a constant.



$$T_c = sum_j=1^n frac(X_j - bar X)^2c$$



I found the expectation of $T_c$ to be $fracsigma^2(n-1)c$ using the definition of $T_c$, however I am stumped over how to determine the $Var(T_c)$.



I started to try to determine it like so but got stuck:



$operatornameVar(T_c) = mathbb E (T_c^2)+ mathbb E (T_c)^2$



$operatornameVar(T_c) = mathbb E ((sum_j=1^n frac(X_j - bar X)^2c)^2) + fracsigma^2(n-1)c$



Any tips/solutions?










share|cite|improve this question















I'm having trouble figuring out how to find the variance of the following estimator.



Let $X_1,X_2,...,X_n$ denote random sample from a population which has a normal distribution with unknown mean $mu$ and unknown variance $sigma^2$. The statistic below is an estimator for $sigma^2$, where $c$ is a constant.



$$T_c = sum_j=1^n frac(X_j - bar X)^2c$$



I found the expectation of $T_c$ to be $fracsigma^2(n-1)c$ using the definition of $T_c$, however I am stumped over how to determine the $Var(T_c)$.



I started to try to determine it like so but got stuck:



$operatornameVar(T_c) = mathbb E (T_c^2)+ mathbb E (T_c)^2$



$operatornameVar(T_c) = mathbb E ((sum_j=1^n frac(X_j - bar X)^2c)^2) + fracsigma^2(n-1)c$



Any tips/solutions?







estimation variance mean-square-error expected-value






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Aug 30 at 7:37

























asked Aug 30 at 5:41









Marty

83




83











  • Hi, welcome to math.SE. You can get displayed equations by enclosing them in double instead of single dollar signs; that makes them a lot easier to read, especially when you're mixing fractions, subscripts and superscripts. You can also get proper formatting for operators like $operatornameVar$ by using operatornameVar. For more information on how to typeset math on this site, please see this tutorial and reference.
    – joriki
    Aug 30 at 7:02










  • Hi, are the samples independants ? since they are normal it would be represented by the fact that the covariance is $0$ for different samples.
    – P. Quinton
    Aug 30 at 7:56










  • Anyway you can always write $X_j-barX$ as a Gaussian random variable (because a sum of jointly Gaussians RVs is a Gaussian RV), then you would need to determine the covariance between any two of those. Finally you can apply the method in this post math.stackexchange.com/questions/442472/…
    – P. Quinton
    Aug 30 at 7:59

















  • Hi, welcome to math.SE. You can get displayed equations by enclosing them in double instead of single dollar signs; that makes them a lot easier to read, especially when you're mixing fractions, subscripts and superscripts. You can also get proper formatting for operators like $operatornameVar$ by using operatornameVar. For more information on how to typeset math on this site, please see this tutorial and reference.
    – joriki
    Aug 30 at 7:02










  • Hi, are the samples independants ? since they are normal it would be represented by the fact that the covariance is $0$ for different samples.
    – P. Quinton
    Aug 30 at 7:56










  • Anyway you can always write $X_j-barX$ as a Gaussian random variable (because a sum of jointly Gaussians RVs is a Gaussian RV), then you would need to determine the covariance between any two of those. Finally you can apply the method in this post math.stackexchange.com/questions/442472/…
    – P. Quinton
    Aug 30 at 7:59
















Hi, welcome to math.SE. You can get displayed equations by enclosing them in double instead of single dollar signs; that makes them a lot easier to read, especially when you're mixing fractions, subscripts and superscripts. You can also get proper formatting for operators like $operatornameVar$ by using operatornameVar. For more information on how to typeset math on this site, please see this tutorial and reference.
– joriki
Aug 30 at 7:02




Hi, welcome to math.SE. You can get displayed equations by enclosing them in double instead of single dollar signs; that makes them a lot easier to read, especially when you're mixing fractions, subscripts and superscripts. You can also get proper formatting for operators like $operatornameVar$ by using operatornameVar. For more information on how to typeset math on this site, please see this tutorial and reference.
– joriki
Aug 30 at 7:02












Hi, are the samples independants ? since they are normal it would be represented by the fact that the covariance is $0$ for different samples.
– P. Quinton
Aug 30 at 7:56




Hi, are the samples independants ? since they are normal it would be represented by the fact that the covariance is $0$ for different samples.
– P. Quinton
Aug 30 at 7:56












Anyway you can always write $X_j-barX$ as a Gaussian random variable (because a sum of jointly Gaussians RVs is a Gaussian RV), then you would need to determine the covariance between any two of those. Finally you can apply the method in this post math.stackexchange.com/questions/442472/…
– P. Quinton
Aug 30 at 7:59





Anyway you can always write $X_j-barX$ as a Gaussian random variable (because a sum of jointly Gaussians RVs is a Gaussian RV), then you would need to determine the covariance between any two of those. Finally you can apply the method in this post math.stackexchange.com/questions/442472/…
– P. Quinton
Aug 30 at 7:59











1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
0
down vote



accepted










I suppose that the samples are independents, so they have $0$ covariance.



Observe that $X_i-barX$ is a Gaussian of mean $0$, let us compute the covariance of two of those
beginalign*
operatornameCov[X_i-barX, X_j-barX] &= mathbbE[(X_i-barX)(X_j-barX)]\
&= mathbbE[((X_i-mu)-(barX-mu))((X_j-mu)-(barX-mu))]\
&=mathbbE[(X_i-mu) (X_j-mu)] - 2 mathbbE[(X_i-mu) (barX-mu)] + mathbbE[(barX-mu)(barX-mu)]\
&= sigma_ij - 2 fracsigma^2n + fracsigma^2n\
&= sigma_ij-fracsigma^2n
endalign*
Where $sigma_ii=sigma^2$ and for $ineq j$, $sigma_ij=0$.



Now let's apply the trick in this post sum of squares of dependent gaussian random variables



the goal is to determine the coefficient $lambda_i$ in front of the chi-squared variables and then use the variance of variance of $chi_1^2$. So we must find the eigen decomposition of $Sigma$ where $Sigma_ij=operatornameCov[X_i-barX, X_j-barX]$. Observe that $Sigma = sigma^2 (pmbI-1/n cdot pmb1)$, we are looking at the eigen values of this. First note that $Sigma-sigma^2 pmbI=1/n cdot pmb1$ (where $pmb1$ denote the all $1$ matrix or all $1$ vector depending on context) have all same rows and so $Sigma$ have eigen value $sigma^2$ with multiplicity $n-1$ (If a symmetric matrix $A$ has $m$ identical rows show that $0$ is an eigen value of $A$ whose geometric multiplicity is atleast $m-1$.).
Then observe that $Sigma pmb1 = sigma^2 (pmbI-1/n cdot pmb1) pmb1 = sigma^2 (pmb1 - pmb1) = 0 cdot pmb1$, so that $0$ is also an eigen value.



Applying the forum trick we get that $T$ have the distribution of a sum of $n-1$ independant $chi^2_1$ multiplied by $sigma^2/c$. The variance of $chi_1^2$ is $2$ and so the variance you seek (modulo all the errors I made) is
$$2(n-1) fracsigma^4c^2$$



Comment : I am not satisfied by not being able to distinguish in my notation the matrix of all ones and the vector of all one, someone have a suggestion ?






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • I just realized this post : math.stackexchange.com/questions/72975/… Which confirms my result, but I don't think it is explained why the $chi^2$ property
    – P. Quinton
    Aug 30 at 9:24










Your Answer




StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: false,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);













 

draft saved


draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2899176%2fdetermine-the-variance-of-estimator-t%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest






























1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
0
down vote



accepted










I suppose that the samples are independents, so they have $0$ covariance.



Observe that $X_i-barX$ is a Gaussian of mean $0$, let us compute the covariance of two of those
beginalign*
operatornameCov[X_i-barX, X_j-barX] &= mathbbE[(X_i-barX)(X_j-barX)]\
&= mathbbE[((X_i-mu)-(barX-mu))((X_j-mu)-(barX-mu))]\
&=mathbbE[(X_i-mu) (X_j-mu)] - 2 mathbbE[(X_i-mu) (barX-mu)] + mathbbE[(barX-mu)(barX-mu)]\
&= sigma_ij - 2 fracsigma^2n + fracsigma^2n\
&= sigma_ij-fracsigma^2n
endalign*
Where $sigma_ii=sigma^2$ and for $ineq j$, $sigma_ij=0$.



Now let's apply the trick in this post sum of squares of dependent gaussian random variables



the goal is to determine the coefficient $lambda_i$ in front of the chi-squared variables and then use the variance of variance of $chi_1^2$. So we must find the eigen decomposition of $Sigma$ where $Sigma_ij=operatornameCov[X_i-barX, X_j-barX]$. Observe that $Sigma = sigma^2 (pmbI-1/n cdot pmb1)$, we are looking at the eigen values of this. First note that $Sigma-sigma^2 pmbI=1/n cdot pmb1$ (where $pmb1$ denote the all $1$ matrix or all $1$ vector depending on context) have all same rows and so $Sigma$ have eigen value $sigma^2$ with multiplicity $n-1$ (If a symmetric matrix $A$ has $m$ identical rows show that $0$ is an eigen value of $A$ whose geometric multiplicity is atleast $m-1$.).
Then observe that $Sigma pmb1 = sigma^2 (pmbI-1/n cdot pmb1) pmb1 = sigma^2 (pmb1 - pmb1) = 0 cdot pmb1$, so that $0$ is also an eigen value.



Applying the forum trick we get that $T$ have the distribution of a sum of $n-1$ independant $chi^2_1$ multiplied by $sigma^2/c$. The variance of $chi_1^2$ is $2$ and so the variance you seek (modulo all the errors I made) is
$$2(n-1) fracsigma^4c^2$$



Comment : I am not satisfied by not being able to distinguish in my notation the matrix of all ones and the vector of all one, someone have a suggestion ?






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • I just realized this post : math.stackexchange.com/questions/72975/… Which confirms my result, but I don't think it is explained why the $chi^2$ property
    – P. Quinton
    Aug 30 at 9:24














up vote
0
down vote



accepted










I suppose that the samples are independents, so they have $0$ covariance.



Observe that $X_i-barX$ is a Gaussian of mean $0$, let us compute the covariance of two of those
beginalign*
operatornameCov[X_i-barX, X_j-barX] &= mathbbE[(X_i-barX)(X_j-barX)]\
&= mathbbE[((X_i-mu)-(barX-mu))((X_j-mu)-(barX-mu))]\
&=mathbbE[(X_i-mu) (X_j-mu)] - 2 mathbbE[(X_i-mu) (barX-mu)] + mathbbE[(barX-mu)(barX-mu)]\
&= sigma_ij - 2 fracsigma^2n + fracsigma^2n\
&= sigma_ij-fracsigma^2n
endalign*
Where $sigma_ii=sigma^2$ and for $ineq j$, $sigma_ij=0$.



Now let's apply the trick in this post sum of squares of dependent gaussian random variables



the goal is to determine the coefficient $lambda_i$ in front of the chi-squared variables and then use the variance of variance of $chi_1^2$. So we must find the eigen decomposition of $Sigma$ where $Sigma_ij=operatornameCov[X_i-barX, X_j-barX]$. Observe that $Sigma = sigma^2 (pmbI-1/n cdot pmb1)$, we are looking at the eigen values of this. First note that $Sigma-sigma^2 pmbI=1/n cdot pmb1$ (where $pmb1$ denote the all $1$ matrix or all $1$ vector depending on context) have all same rows and so $Sigma$ have eigen value $sigma^2$ with multiplicity $n-1$ (If a symmetric matrix $A$ has $m$ identical rows show that $0$ is an eigen value of $A$ whose geometric multiplicity is atleast $m-1$.).
Then observe that $Sigma pmb1 = sigma^2 (pmbI-1/n cdot pmb1) pmb1 = sigma^2 (pmb1 - pmb1) = 0 cdot pmb1$, so that $0$ is also an eigen value.



Applying the forum trick we get that $T$ have the distribution of a sum of $n-1$ independant $chi^2_1$ multiplied by $sigma^2/c$. The variance of $chi_1^2$ is $2$ and so the variance you seek (modulo all the errors I made) is
$$2(n-1) fracsigma^4c^2$$



Comment : I am not satisfied by not being able to distinguish in my notation the matrix of all ones and the vector of all one, someone have a suggestion ?






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • I just realized this post : math.stackexchange.com/questions/72975/… Which confirms my result, but I don't think it is explained why the $chi^2$ property
    – P. Quinton
    Aug 30 at 9:24












up vote
0
down vote



accepted







up vote
0
down vote



accepted






I suppose that the samples are independents, so they have $0$ covariance.



Observe that $X_i-barX$ is a Gaussian of mean $0$, let us compute the covariance of two of those
beginalign*
operatornameCov[X_i-barX, X_j-barX] &= mathbbE[(X_i-barX)(X_j-barX)]\
&= mathbbE[((X_i-mu)-(barX-mu))((X_j-mu)-(barX-mu))]\
&=mathbbE[(X_i-mu) (X_j-mu)] - 2 mathbbE[(X_i-mu) (barX-mu)] + mathbbE[(barX-mu)(barX-mu)]\
&= sigma_ij - 2 fracsigma^2n + fracsigma^2n\
&= sigma_ij-fracsigma^2n
endalign*
Where $sigma_ii=sigma^2$ and for $ineq j$, $sigma_ij=0$.



Now let's apply the trick in this post sum of squares of dependent gaussian random variables



the goal is to determine the coefficient $lambda_i$ in front of the chi-squared variables and then use the variance of variance of $chi_1^2$. So we must find the eigen decomposition of $Sigma$ where $Sigma_ij=operatornameCov[X_i-barX, X_j-barX]$. Observe that $Sigma = sigma^2 (pmbI-1/n cdot pmb1)$, we are looking at the eigen values of this. First note that $Sigma-sigma^2 pmbI=1/n cdot pmb1$ (where $pmb1$ denote the all $1$ matrix or all $1$ vector depending on context) have all same rows and so $Sigma$ have eigen value $sigma^2$ with multiplicity $n-1$ (If a symmetric matrix $A$ has $m$ identical rows show that $0$ is an eigen value of $A$ whose geometric multiplicity is atleast $m-1$.).
Then observe that $Sigma pmb1 = sigma^2 (pmbI-1/n cdot pmb1) pmb1 = sigma^2 (pmb1 - pmb1) = 0 cdot pmb1$, so that $0$ is also an eigen value.



Applying the forum trick we get that $T$ have the distribution of a sum of $n-1$ independant $chi^2_1$ multiplied by $sigma^2/c$. The variance of $chi_1^2$ is $2$ and so the variance you seek (modulo all the errors I made) is
$$2(n-1) fracsigma^4c^2$$



Comment : I am not satisfied by not being able to distinguish in my notation the matrix of all ones and the vector of all one, someone have a suggestion ?






share|cite|improve this answer














I suppose that the samples are independents, so they have $0$ covariance.



Observe that $X_i-barX$ is a Gaussian of mean $0$, let us compute the covariance of two of those
beginalign*
operatornameCov[X_i-barX, X_j-barX] &= mathbbE[(X_i-barX)(X_j-barX)]\
&= mathbbE[((X_i-mu)-(barX-mu))((X_j-mu)-(barX-mu))]\
&=mathbbE[(X_i-mu) (X_j-mu)] - 2 mathbbE[(X_i-mu) (barX-mu)] + mathbbE[(barX-mu)(barX-mu)]\
&= sigma_ij - 2 fracsigma^2n + fracsigma^2n\
&= sigma_ij-fracsigma^2n
endalign*
Where $sigma_ii=sigma^2$ and for $ineq j$, $sigma_ij=0$.



Now let's apply the trick in this post sum of squares of dependent gaussian random variables



the goal is to determine the coefficient $lambda_i$ in front of the chi-squared variables and then use the variance of variance of $chi_1^2$. So we must find the eigen decomposition of $Sigma$ where $Sigma_ij=operatornameCov[X_i-barX, X_j-barX]$. Observe that $Sigma = sigma^2 (pmbI-1/n cdot pmb1)$, we are looking at the eigen values of this. First note that $Sigma-sigma^2 pmbI=1/n cdot pmb1$ (where $pmb1$ denote the all $1$ matrix or all $1$ vector depending on context) have all same rows and so $Sigma$ have eigen value $sigma^2$ with multiplicity $n-1$ (If a symmetric matrix $A$ has $m$ identical rows show that $0$ is an eigen value of $A$ whose geometric multiplicity is atleast $m-1$.).
Then observe that $Sigma pmb1 = sigma^2 (pmbI-1/n cdot pmb1) pmb1 = sigma^2 (pmb1 - pmb1) = 0 cdot pmb1$, so that $0$ is also an eigen value.



Applying the forum trick we get that $T$ have the distribution of a sum of $n-1$ independant $chi^2_1$ multiplied by $sigma^2/c$. The variance of $chi_1^2$ is $2$ and so the variance you seek (modulo all the errors I made) is
$$2(n-1) fracsigma^4c^2$$



Comment : I am not satisfied by not being able to distinguish in my notation the matrix of all ones and the vector of all one, someone have a suggestion ?







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Aug 30 at 9:21

























answered Aug 30 at 9:14









P. Quinton

45410




45410











  • I just realized this post : math.stackexchange.com/questions/72975/… Which confirms my result, but I don't think it is explained why the $chi^2$ property
    – P. Quinton
    Aug 30 at 9:24
















  • I just realized this post : math.stackexchange.com/questions/72975/… Which confirms my result, but I don't think it is explained why the $chi^2$ property
    – P. Quinton
    Aug 30 at 9:24















I just realized this post : math.stackexchange.com/questions/72975/… Which confirms my result, but I don't think it is explained why the $chi^2$ property
– P. Quinton
Aug 30 at 9:24




I just realized this post : math.stackexchange.com/questions/72975/… Which confirms my result, but I don't think it is explained why the $chi^2$ property
– P. Quinton
Aug 30 at 9:24

















 

draft saved


draft discarded















































 


draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2899176%2fdetermine-the-variance-of-estimator-t%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest













































































這個網誌中的熱門文章

How to combine Bézier curves to a surface?

Mutual Information Always Non-negative

Why am i infinitely getting the same tweet with the Twitter Search API?