Limit of sequence exists but might be infinity
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Assumption 4.2 in Stokey et al. states, for the real sequence $x_t$:
... $lim_nrightarrow infty sum_t=0^n x_t$ exists but might be positive or negative infinity.
But this goes against my intuition and understanding.
How can a series going to $infty$ be converging to a limit? And what is the difference between converging to $infty$ and diverging?
Source: Stokey, N. & Lucas, R.(1989} Recursive Methods in Economic Dynamics, page 84
sequences-and-series limits
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up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Assumption 4.2 in Stokey et al. states, for the real sequence $x_t$:
... $lim_nrightarrow infty sum_t=0^n x_t$ exists but might be positive or negative infinity.
But this goes against my intuition and understanding.
How can a series going to $infty$ be converging to a limit? And what is the difference between converging to $infty$ and diverging?
Source: Stokey, N. & Lucas, R.(1989} Recursive Methods in Economic Dynamics, page 84
sequences-and-series limits
the limit $lim_xtoinfty x$ exists and is equal to $infty$. but what is the definition of convergence ?
â Nosrati
Sep 6 at 6:45
@Nosrati This is a sloppy and mathematical incorrect formulation. $infty$ is not a number. Unfortunately, this formulation is however quite often used.
â Peter
Sep 6 at 6:46
@Peter exactly. but generally the definition of convergence says the limit is exist and is finite.
â Nosrati
Sep 6 at 6:48
@Nosrati Yes, that is of course correct.
â Peter
Sep 6 at 6:48
@Peter: There is nothing sloppy about the extended real number line.
â Hurkyl
Sep 6 at 6:53
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Assumption 4.2 in Stokey et al. states, for the real sequence $x_t$:
... $lim_nrightarrow infty sum_t=0^n x_t$ exists but might be positive or negative infinity.
But this goes against my intuition and understanding.
How can a series going to $infty$ be converging to a limit? And what is the difference between converging to $infty$ and diverging?
Source: Stokey, N. & Lucas, R.(1989} Recursive Methods in Economic Dynamics, page 84
sequences-and-series limits
Assumption 4.2 in Stokey et al. states, for the real sequence $x_t$:
... $lim_nrightarrow infty sum_t=0^n x_t$ exists but might be positive or negative infinity.
But this goes against my intuition and understanding.
How can a series going to $infty$ be converging to a limit? And what is the difference between converging to $infty$ and diverging?
Source: Stokey, N. & Lucas, R.(1989} Recursive Methods in Economic Dynamics, page 84
sequences-and-series limits
sequences-and-series limits
asked Sep 6 at 6:41
Chris tie
1303
1303
the limit $lim_xtoinfty x$ exists and is equal to $infty$. but what is the definition of convergence ?
â Nosrati
Sep 6 at 6:45
@Nosrati This is a sloppy and mathematical incorrect formulation. $infty$ is not a number. Unfortunately, this formulation is however quite often used.
â Peter
Sep 6 at 6:46
@Peter exactly. but generally the definition of convergence says the limit is exist and is finite.
â Nosrati
Sep 6 at 6:48
@Nosrati Yes, that is of course correct.
â Peter
Sep 6 at 6:48
@Peter: There is nothing sloppy about the extended real number line.
â Hurkyl
Sep 6 at 6:53
 |Â
show 3 more comments
the limit $lim_xtoinfty x$ exists and is equal to $infty$. but what is the definition of convergence ?
â Nosrati
Sep 6 at 6:45
@Nosrati This is a sloppy and mathematical incorrect formulation. $infty$ is not a number. Unfortunately, this formulation is however quite often used.
â Peter
Sep 6 at 6:46
@Peter exactly. but generally the definition of convergence says the limit is exist and is finite.
â Nosrati
Sep 6 at 6:48
@Nosrati Yes, that is of course correct.
â Peter
Sep 6 at 6:48
@Peter: There is nothing sloppy about the extended real number line.
â Hurkyl
Sep 6 at 6:53
the limit $lim_xtoinfty x$ exists and is equal to $infty$. but what is the definition of convergence ?
â Nosrati
Sep 6 at 6:45
the limit $lim_xtoinfty x$ exists and is equal to $infty$. but what is the definition of convergence ?
â Nosrati
Sep 6 at 6:45
@Nosrati This is a sloppy and mathematical incorrect formulation. $infty$ is not a number. Unfortunately, this formulation is however quite often used.
â Peter
Sep 6 at 6:46
@Nosrati This is a sloppy and mathematical incorrect formulation. $infty$ is not a number. Unfortunately, this formulation is however quite often used.
â Peter
Sep 6 at 6:46
@Peter exactly. but generally the definition of convergence says the limit is exist and is finite.
â Nosrati
Sep 6 at 6:48
@Peter exactly. but generally the definition of convergence says the limit is exist and is finite.
â Nosrati
Sep 6 at 6:48
@Nosrati Yes, that is of course correct.
â Peter
Sep 6 at 6:48
@Nosrati Yes, that is of course correct.
â Peter
Sep 6 at 6:48
@Peter: There is nothing sloppy about the extended real number line.
â Hurkyl
Sep 6 at 6:53
@Peter: There is nothing sloppy about the extended real number line.
â Hurkyl
Sep 6 at 6:53
 |Â
show 3 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
This kind of definition is often used and we said that the limit of a sequences may
exist finite when $a_nto Lin mathbbR$ and $a_n$ converges
exist infinite positive $a_nto infty$ and $a_n$ diverges
exist infinite negative $a_nto -infty$ and $a_n$ diverges
doesnâÂÂt exist in all the other cases
Note that for the three cases of existence we need three different definitions.
The advantage of this kind of definition is that we distinguish the infinite cases from the last which is the case of sequences like $sin n$ for example.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
There is no real difference between "diverges to $+infty$" and "converges to $+infty$"; the choice of language simply reflects the author's point of view.
When doing calculus/real analysis, it is very convenient to work in the extended real numbers.
$+infty$ and $-infty$ are points on the extended real line, and we can talk about limits involving them. we say $lim_n to +infty x_n = +infty$, this is just the ordinary (topological) definition of a limit. And the usual language for limits is that $x_n$ converges to the point $+infty$ as $n$ goes to $+infty$.
Introductory calculus classes generally avoid talking about the extended real line. When restricting yourself just to the ordinary real line, such a limit doesn't converge to a point of the real line, so it would be correct to say such a limit does not exist.
These limits, however, are so incredibly useful to know and understand that introductory calculus classes have to teach them, despite never talking about the extended real numbers.
So you have the unfortunate situation where you still want to talk about limits that have infinite values, or whose argument goes to infinity, or both... but since you restrict yourself to a space that does not actually have the points at infinity you can't say these are convergent limits.
In conclusion:
- Saying the "limit exists and has value $+infty$" means the author is thinking of taking the limits in the extended real numbers
- Saying the "limit does not exist and has value $+infty$" means the author is thinking of taking limits in the ordinary real numbers, but still finds this situation useful enough to talk about it anyways
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
"Not converging" can have two meanings
diverging to $pminfty$,
not converging at all (f.i. with two subsequences that converge to different limits).
The author probably wanted to express compactly that we are not in the second case.
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
This kind of definition is often used and we said that the limit of a sequences may
exist finite when $a_nto Lin mathbbR$ and $a_n$ converges
exist infinite positive $a_nto infty$ and $a_n$ diverges
exist infinite negative $a_nto -infty$ and $a_n$ diverges
doesnâÂÂt exist in all the other cases
Note that for the three cases of existence we need three different definitions.
The advantage of this kind of definition is that we distinguish the infinite cases from the last which is the case of sequences like $sin n$ for example.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
This kind of definition is often used and we said that the limit of a sequences may
exist finite when $a_nto Lin mathbbR$ and $a_n$ converges
exist infinite positive $a_nto infty$ and $a_n$ diverges
exist infinite negative $a_nto -infty$ and $a_n$ diverges
doesnâÂÂt exist in all the other cases
Note that for the three cases of existence we need three different definitions.
The advantage of this kind of definition is that we distinguish the infinite cases from the last which is the case of sequences like $sin n$ for example.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
This kind of definition is often used and we said that the limit of a sequences may
exist finite when $a_nto Lin mathbbR$ and $a_n$ converges
exist infinite positive $a_nto infty$ and $a_n$ diverges
exist infinite negative $a_nto -infty$ and $a_n$ diverges
doesnâÂÂt exist in all the other cases
Note that for the three cases of existence we need three different definitions.
The advantage of this kind of definition is that we distinguish the infinite cases from the last which is the case of sequences like $sin n$ for example.
This kind of definition is often used and we said that the limit of a sequences may
exist finite when $a_nto Lin mathbbR$ and $a_n$ converges
exist infinite positive $a_nto infty$ and $a_n$ diverges
exist infinite negative $a_nto -infty$ and $a_n$ diverges
doesnâÂÂt exist in all the other cases
Note that for the three cases of existence we need three different definitions.
The advantage of this kind of definition is that we distinguish the infinite cases from the last which is the case of sequences like $sin n$ for example.
answered Sep 6 at 6:55
gimusi
73.6k73889
73.6k73889
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
There is no real difference between "diverges to $+infty$" and "converges to $+infty$"; the choice of language simply reflects the author's point of view.
When doing calculus/real analysis, it is very convenient to work in the extended real numbers.
$+infty$ and $-infty$ are points on the extended real line, and we can talk about limits involving them. we say $lim_n to +infty x_n = +infty$, this is just the ordinary (topological) definition of a limit. And the usual language for limits is that $x_n$ converges to the point $+infty$ as $n$ goes to $+infty$.
Introductory calculus classes generally avoid talking about the extended real line. When restricting yourself just to the ordinary real line, such a limit doesn't converge to a point of the real line, so it would be correct to say such a limit does not exist.
These limits, however, are so incredibly useful to know and understand that introductory calculus classes have to teach them, despite never talking about the extended real numbers.
So you have the unfortunate situation where you still want to talk about limits that have infinite values, or whose argument goes to infinity, or both... but since you restrict yourself to a space that does not actually have the points at infinity you can't say these are convergent limits.
In conclusion:
- Saying the "limit exists and has value $+infty$" means the author is thinking of taking the limits in the extended real numbers
- Saying the "limit does not exist and has value $+infty$" means the author is thinking of taking limits in the ordinary real numbers, but still finds this situation useful enough to talk about it anyways
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
There is no real difference between "diverges to $+infty$" and "converges to $+infty$"; the choice of language simply reflects the author's point of view.
When doing calculus/real analysis, it is very convenient to work in the extended real numbers.
$+infty$ and $-infty$ are points on the extended real line, and we can talk about limits involving them. we say $lim_n to +infty x_n = +infty$, this is just the ordinary (topological) definition of a limit. And the usual language for limits is that $x_n$ converges to the point $+infty$ as $n$ goes to $+infty$.
Introductory calculus classes generally avoid talking about the extended real line. When restricting yourself just to the ordinary real line, such a limit doesn't converge to a point of the real line, so it would be correct to say such a limit does not exist.
These limits, however, are so incredibly useful to know and understand that introductory calculus classes have to teach them, despite never talking about the extended real numbers.
So you have the unfortunate situation where you still want to talk about limits that have infinite values, or whose argument goes to infinity, or both... but since you restrict yourself to a space that does not actually have the points at infinity you can't say these are convergent limits.
In conclusion:
- Saying the "limit exists and has value $+infty$" means the author is thinking of taking the limits in the extended real numbers
- Saying the "limit does not exist and has value $+infty$" means the author is thinking of taking limits in the ordinary real numbers, but still finds this situation useful enough to talk about it anyways
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
There is no real difference between "diverges to $+infty$" and "converges to $+infty$"; the choice of language simply reflects the author's point of view.
When doing calculus/real analysis, it is very convenient to work in the extended real numbers.
$+infty$ and $-infty$ are points on the extended real line, and we can talk about limits involving them. we say $lim_n to +infty x_n = +infty$, this is just the ordinary (topological) definition of a limit. And the usual language for limits is that $x_n$ converges to the point $+infty$ as $n$ goes to $+infty$.
Introductory calculus classes generally avoid talking about the extended real line. When restricting yourself just to the ordinary real line, such a limit doesn't converge to a point of the real line, so it would be correct to say such a limit does not exist.
These limits, however, are so incredibly useful to know and understand that introductory calculus classes have to teach them, despite never talking about the extended real numbers.
So you have the unfortunate situation where you still want to talk about limits that have infinite values, or whose argument goes to infinity, or both... but since you restrict yourself to a space that does not actually have the points at infinity you can't say these are convergent limits.
In conclusion:
- Saying the "limit exists and has value $+infty$" means the author is thinking of taking the limits in the extended real numbers
- Saying the "limit does not exist and has value $+infty$" means the author is thinking of taking limits in the ordinary real numbers, but still finds this situation useful enough to talk about it anyways
There is no real difference between "diverges to $+infty$" and "converges to $+infty$"; the choice of language simply reflects the author's point of view.
When doing calculus/real analysis, it is very convenient to work in the extended real numbers.
$+infty$ and $-infty$ are points on the extended real line, and we can talk about limits involving them. we say $lim_n to +infty x_n = +infty$, this is just the ordinary (topological) definition of a limit. And the usual language for limits is that $x_n$ converges to the point $+infty$ as $n$ goes to $+infty$.
Introductory calculus classes generally avoid talking about the extended real line. When restricting yourself just to the ordinary real line, such a limit doesn't converge to a point of the real line, so it would be correct to say such a limit does not exist.
These limits, however, are so incredibly useful to know and understand that introductory calculus classes have to teach them, despite never talking about the extended real numbers.
So you have the unfortunate situation where you still want to talk about limits that have infinite values, or whose argument goes to infinity, or both... but since you restrict yourself to a space that does not actually have the points at infinity you can't say these are convergent limits.
In conclusion:
- Saying the "limit exists and has value $+infty$" means the author is thinking of taking the limits in the extended real numbers
- Saying the "limit does not exist and has value $+infty$" means the author is thinking of taking limits in the ordinary real numbers, but still finds this situation useful enough to talk about it anyways
edited Sep 6 at 7:11
answered Sep 6 at 6:57
Hurkyl
110k9114257
110k9114257
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
"Not converging" can have two meanings
diverging to $pminfty$,
not converging at all (f.i. with two subsequences that converge to different limits).
The author probably wanted to express compactly that we are not in the second case.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
"Not converging" can have two meanings
diverging to $pminfty$,
not converging at all (f.i. with two subsequences that converge to different limits).
The author probably wanted to express compactly that we are not in the second case.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
"Not converging" can have two meanings
diverging to $pminfty$,
not converging at all (f.i. with two subsequences that converge to different limits).
The author probably wanted to express compactly that we are not in the second case.
"Not converging" can have two meanings
diverging to $pminfty$,
not converging at all (f.i. with two subsequences that converge to different limits).
The author probably wanted to express compactly that we are not in the second case.
edited Sep 6 at 7:28
answered Sep 6 at 7:23
Yves Daoust
115k666209
115k666209
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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the limit $lim_xtoinfty x$ exists and is equal to $infty$. but what is the definition of convergence ?
â Nosrati
Sep 6 at 6:45
@Nosrati This is a sloppy and mathematical incorrect formulation. $infty$ is not a number. Unfortunately, this formulation is however quite often used.
â Peter
Sep 6 at 6:46
@Peter exactly. but generally the definition of convergence says the limit is exist and is finite.
â Nosrati
Sep 6 at 6:48
@Nosrati Yes, that is of course correct.
â Peter
Sep 6 at 6:48
@Peter: There is nothing sloppy about the extended real number line.
â Hurkyl
Sep 6 at 6:53