Sign change for a continuous Lipschitz function
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Suppose I have a Lipschitz function $f$ defined on $[a,b]$. Suppose there is a measure zero set on which $f$ is equal to $0$. Can the following happen?
For any $epsilon > 0$, if $f(x) = 0$ for some $x$, $f$ takes both positive and negative values in $(x, x+ epsilon)$ and also in $(x-epsilon ,x)$?
What if $f$ were also differentiable?
Obviously, the above would not happen if $f$ never becomes negative, i.e. bounces off $0$. A counterexample regarding one sided derivatives of Lipschitz functions posted here shows that at one point it can happen. But, I am interested in showing the following:
If, for some $x$ such that $f(x) = 0$, and for any $epsilon > 0$, $f$ takes both positive and negative values in $(x, x+ epsilon)$ and also in $(x-epsilon ,x)$ then there are at least two points where $f$ changes sign, i.e. in some closed interval to the left it's negative and to the right it's positive,
analysis lipschitz-functions
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up vote
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down vote
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Suppose I have a Lipschitz function $f$ defined on $[a,b]$. Suppose there is a measure zero set on which $f$ is equal to $0$. Can the following happen?
For any $epsilon > 0$, if $f(x) = 0$ for some $x$, $f$ takes both positive and negative values in $(x, x+ epsilon)$ and also in $(x-epsilon ,x)$?
What if $f$ were also differentiable?
Obviously, the above would not happen if $f$ never becomes negative, i.e. bounces off $0$. A counterexample regarding one sided derivatives of Lipschitz functions posted here shows that at one point it can happen. But, I am interested in showing the following:
If, for some $x$ such that $f(x) = 0$, and for any $epsilon > 0$, $f$ takes both positive and negative values in $(x, x+ epsilon)$ and also in $(x-epsilon ,x)$ then there are at least two points where $f$ changes sign, i.e. in some closed interval to the left it's negative and to the right it's positive,
analysis lipschitz-functions
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Suppose I have a Lipschitz function $f$ defined on $[a,b]$. Suppose there is a measure zero set on which $f$ is equal to $0$. Can the following happen?
For any $epsilon > 0$, if $f(x) = 0$ for some $x$, $f$ takes both positive and negative values in $(x, x+ epsilon)$ and also in $(x-epsilon ,x)$?
What if $f$ were also differentiable?
Obviously, the above would not happen if $f$ never becomes negative, i.e. bounces off $0$. A counterexample regarding one sided derivatives of Lipschitz functions posted here shows that at one point it can happen. But, I am interested in showing the following:
If, for some $x$ such that $f(x) = 0$, and for any $epsilon > 0$, $f$ takes both positive and negative values in $(x, x+ epsilon)$ and also in $(x-epsilon ,x)$ then there are at least two points where $f$ changes sign, i.e. in some closed interval to the left it's negative and to the right it's positive,
analysis lipschitz-functions
Suppose I have a Lipschitz function $f$ defined on $[a,b]$. Suppose there is a measure zero set on which $f$ is equal to $0$. Can the following happen?
For any $epsilon > 0$, if $f(x) = 0$ for some $x$, $f$ takes both positive and negative values in $(x, x+ epsilon)$ and also in $(x-epsilon ,x)$?
What if $f$ were also differentiable?
Obviously, the above would not happen if $f$ never becomes negative, i.e. bounces off $0$. A counterexample regarding one sided derivatives of Lipschitz functions posted here shows that at one point it can happen. But, I am interested in showing the following:
If, for some $x$ such that $f(x) = 0$, and for any $epsilon > 0$, $f$ takes both positive and negative values in $(x, x+ epsilon)$ and also in $(x-epsilon ,x)$ then there are at least two points where $f$ changes sign, i.e. in some closed interval to the left it's negative and to the right it's positive,
analysis lipschitz-functions
edited Aug 16 at 10:16
asked Aug 16 at 9:59
avk255
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1 Answer
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Suppose that $f(c)=0.$ Then $f$ on $(c,b)$ takes positive and negative values. Let $d$ be such that $f(d)>0.$ Now let define $$e=supxin (c,d).$$ It is clear that $e<d$ and $f(e)=0.$ Since $f(e)=0$ we have that on $(e,d)$ the function takes positive and negative values. Then there exist $zin (e,d)$ such that $f(z)=0.$ This contradicts the definition of $e.$ So, we conclude that such a function can't exist.
Thanks. But $xin (c,d) $ may be empty. The counterexample in the link has this property when $c = 0$.
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:28
No, it can't be empty. Since $f$ takes positive and negative values on $(c,d)$ there exist at least a point $xin (c,d)$ such that $f(x)=0.$
â mfl
Aug 16 at 10:30
sorry, it's sup, not inf! I thought you meant inf! Thanks a lot. Any thoughts on the last part, the one with at least two points where sign changes?
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:31
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
Suppose that $f(c)=0.$ Then $f$ on $(c,b)$ takes positive and negative values. Let $d$ be such that $f(d)>0.$ Now let define $$e=supxin (c,d).$$ It is clear that $e<d$ and $f(e)=0.$ Since $f(e)=0$ we have that on $(e,d)$ the function takes positive and negative values. Then there exist $zin (e,d)$ such that $f(z)=0.$ This contradicts the definition of $e.$ So, we conclude that such a function can't exist.
Thanks. But $xin (c,d) $ may be empty. The counterexample in the link has this property when $c = 0$.
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:28
No, it can't be empty. Since $f$ takes positive and negative values on $(c,d)$ there exist at least a point $xin (c,d)$ such that $f(x)=0.$
â mfl
Aug 16 at 10:30
sorry, it's sup, not inf! I thought you meant inf! Thanks a lot. Any thoughts on the last part, the one with at least two points where sign changes?
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:31
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
Suppose that $f(c)=0.$ Then $f$ on $(c,b)$ takes positive and negative values. Let $d$ be such that $f(d)>0.$ Now let define $$e=supxin (c,d).$$ It is clear that $e<d$ and $f(e)=0.$ Since $f(e)=0$ we have that on $(e,d)$ the function takes positive and negative values. Then there exist $zin (e,d)$ such that $f(z)=0.$ This contradicts the definition of $e.$ So, we conclude that such a function can't exist.
Thanks. But $xin (c,d) $ may be empty. The counterexample in the link has this property when $c = 0$.
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:28
No, it can't be empty. Since $f$ takes positive and negative values on $(c,d)$ there exist at least a point $xin (c,d)$ such that $f(x)=0.$
â mfl
Aug 16 at 10:30
sorry, it's sup, not inf! I thought you meant inf! Thanks a lot. Any thoughts on the last part, the one with at least two points where sign changes?
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:31
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
up vote
0
down vote
accepted
Suppose that $f(c)=0.$ Then $f$ on $(c,b)$ takes positive and negative values. Let $d$ be such that $f(d)>0.$ Now let define $$e=supxin (c,d).$$ It is clear that $e<d$ and $f(e)=0.$ Since $f(e)=0$ we have that on $(e,d)$ the function takes positive and negative values. Then there exist $zin (e,d)$ such that $f(z)=0.$ This contradicts the definition of $e.$ So, we conclude that such a function can't exist.
Suppose that $f(c)=0.$ Then $f$ on $(c,b)$ takes positive and negative values. Let $d$ be such that $f(d)>0.$ Now let define $$e=supxin (c,d).$$ It is clear that $e<d$ and $f(e)=0.$ Since $f(e)=0$ we have that on $(e,d)$ the function takes positive and negative values. Then there exist $zin (e,d)$ such that $f(z)=0.$ This contradicts the definition of $e.$ So, we conclude that such a function can't exist.
answered Aug 16 at 10:24
mfl
24.7k12040
24.7k12040
Thanks. But $xin (c,d) $ may be empty. The counterexample in the link has this property when $c = 0$.
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:28
No, it can't be empty. Since $f$ takes positive and negative values on $(c,d)$ there exist at least a point $xin (c,d)$ such that $f(x)=0.$
â mfl
Aug 16 at 10:30
sorry, it's sup, not inf! I thought you meant inf! Thanks a lot. Any thoughts on the last part, the one with at least two points where sign changes?
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:31
add a comment |Â
Thanks. But $xin (c,d) $ may be empty. The counterexample in the link has this property when $c = 0$.
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:28
No, it can't be empty. Since $f$ takes positive and negative values on $(c,d)$ there exist at least a point $xin (c,d)$ such that $f(x)=0.$
â mfl
Aug 16 at 10:30
sorry, it's sup, not inf! I thought you meant inf! Thanks a lot. Any thoughts on the last part, the one with at least two points where sign changes?
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:31
Thanks. But $xin (c,d) $ may be empty. The counterexample in the link has this property when $c = 0$.
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:28
Thanks. But $xin (c,d) $ may be empty. The counterexample in the link has this property when $c = 0$.
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:28
No, it can't be empty. Since $f$ takes positive and negative values on $(c,d)$ there exist at least a point $xin (c,d)$ such that $f(x)=0.$
â mfl
Aug 16 at 10:30
No, it can't be empty. Since $f$ takes positive and negative values on $(c,d)$ there exist at least a point $xin (c,d)$ such that $f(x)=0.$
â mfl
Aug 16 at 10:30
sorry, it's sup, not inf! I thought you meant inf! Thanks a lot. Any thoughts on the last part, the one with at least two points where sign changes?
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:31
sorry, it's sup, not inf! I thought you meant inf! Thanks a lot. Any thoughts on the last part, the one with at least two points where sign changes?
â avk255
Aug 16 at 10:31
add a comment |Â
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