How many ways to divide group of 12 people into 2 groups of 3 people and 3 groups of 2 people?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
up vote
9
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favorite
How many ways to divide group of 12 people into 2 groups of 3 people and 3 groups of 2 people?
my answer to this question is:
$$
12 choose 2 10 choose2 8choose26choose33choose3frac12!2!2!frac13!3!
$$
Although the correct solution should be :
$$
12 choose 2 10 choose2 8choose26choose33choose3frac12!frac13!
$$
What am I missing here? If I have 2 groups of 3 , and 3 groups of 2, shouldn't I divide each group by its factorial in order to cancel the inner ordering of the group?
combinatorics
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
How many ways to divide group of 12 people into 2 groups of 3 people and 3 groups of 2 people?
my answer to this question is:
$$
12 choose 2 10 choose2 8choose26choose33choose3frac12!2!2!frac13!3!
$$
Although the correct solution should be :
$$
12 choose 2 10 choose2 8choose26choose33choose3frac12!frac13!
$$
What am I missing here? If I have 2 groups of 3 , and 3 groups of 2, shouldn't I divide each group by its factorial in order to cancel the inner ordering of the group?
combinatorics
3
I think the question is designed to confuse students by using the numbers 2 and 3 in two different ways. If you find it confusing, think about this related problem: How many ways to divide a group of 58 people into 4 groups of 7 people and 6 groups of 5 people?
â Srivatsan
Sep 17 '11 at 18:00
Thanks guys, i can see my mistake clearly now! @Srivatsan, Austin Mohr
â MichaelS
Sep 17 '11 at 18:05
Zero and zero, respectively.
â Alexander Gruberâ¦
Sep 10 '13 at 18:13
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
up vote
9
down vote
favorite
How many ways to divide group of 12 people into 2 groups of 3 people and 3 groups of 2 people?
my answer to this question is:
$$
12 choose 2 10 choose2 8choose26choose33choose3frac12!2!2!frac13!3!
$$
Although the correct solution should be :
$$
12 choose 2 10 choose2 8choose26choose33choose3frac12!frac13!
$$
What am I missing here? If I have 2 groups of 3 , and 3 groups of 2, shouldn't I divide each group by its factorial in order to cancel the inner ordering of the group?
combinatorics
How many ways to divide group of 12 people into 2 groups of 3 people and 3 groups of 2 people?
my answer to this question is:
$$
12 choose 2 10 choose2 8choose26choose33choose3frac12!2!2!frac13!3!
$$
Although the correct solution should be :
$$
12 choose 2 10 choose2 8choose26choose33choose3frac12!frac13!
$$
What am I missing here? If I have 2 groups of 3 , and 3 groups of 2, shouldn't I divide each group by its factorial in order to cancel the inner ordering of the group?
combinatorics
edited Sep 17 '11 at 17:43
asked Sep 17 '11 at 17:36
MichaelS
4082615
4082615
3
I think the question is designed to confuse students by using the numbers 2 and 3 in two different ways. If you find it confusing, think about this related problem: How many ways to divide a group of 58 people into 4 groups of 7 people and 6 groups of 5 people?
â Srivatsan
Sep 17 '11 at 18:00
Thanks guys, i can see my mistake clearly now! @Srivatsan, Austin Mohr
â MichaelS
Sep 17 '11 at 18:05
Zero and zero, respectively.
â Alexander Gruberâ¦
Sep 10 '13 at 18:13
add a comment |Â
3
I think the question is designed to confuse students by using the numbers 2 and 3 in two different ways. If you find it confusing, think about this related problem: How many ways to divide a group of 58 people into 4 groups of 7 people and 6 groups of 5 people?
â Srivatsan
Sep 17 '11 at 18:00
Thanks guys, i can see my mistake clearly now! @Srivatsan, Austin Mohr
â MichaelS
Sep 17 '11 at 18:05
Zero and zero, respectively.
â Alexander Gruberâ¦
Sep 10 '13 at 18:13
3
3
I think the question is designed to confuse students by using the numbers 2 and 3 in two different ways. If you find it confusing, think about this related problem: How many ways to divide a group of 58 people into 4 groups of 7 people and 6 groups of 5 people?
â Srivatsan
Sep 17 '11 at 18:00
I think the question is designed to confuse students by using the numbers 2 and 3 in two different ways. If you find it confusing, think about this related problem: How many ways to divide a group of 58 people into 4 groups of 7 people and 6 groups of 5 people?
â Srivatsan
Sep 17 '11 at 18:00
Thanks guys, i can see my mistake clearly now! @Srivatsan, Austin Mohr
â MichaelS
Sep 17 '11 at 18:05
Thanks guys, i can see my mistake clearly now! @Srivatsan, Austin Mohr
â MichaelS
Sep 17 '11 at 18:05
Zero and zero, respectively.
â Alexander Gruberâ¦
Sep 10 '13 at 18:13
Zero and zero, respectively.
â Alexander Gruberâ¦
Sep 10 '13 at 18:13
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
13
down vote
accepted
The fact that ordering does not matter within a group is already taken care of by the binomial coefficients. The additional $2!$ and $3!$ you see in the answer are taking care of the fact that the order in which the groups themselves were chosen also does not matter.
For example, if your two-person groups are $A, B$, $C, D$, and $E, F$, then the following arrangements are all the same:
$A, B$, $C, D$, $E, F$
$A, B$, $E, F$, $C, D$
$C, D$, $A, B$, $E, F$
$C, D$, $E, F$, $A, B$
$E, F$, $A, B$, $C, D$
$E, F$, $C, D$, $A, B$
Notice there are $3!$ such arrangements. When you just multiply your binomial coefficients together, however, these all get counted as distinct. Dividing by $3!$ collapses these all into a single arrangement.
To give another example with a better selection of numbers, suppose you want to arrange 6 people into three groups of two each. This would be given by
$$
fracbinom62 binom42 binom223!.
$$
Again, the $3!$ is coming from the number of groups, not their size.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
The number of ways of chosing r objects from a collection of n, $^nC_r$, is $fracn!r!(1-r)!$
There are $^12C_6$ ways to divide into 2 groups of 6. Then $^6C_3$ ways to divide a group of 6 into 2 groups of 3, $^6C_2$ ways to split into a 2 and a 4 and $^4C_2$ ways to split each 4 into 2s but then 15 of the possibilities would be identical. So it is $$frac^12C_6times2times^6C_3times^6C_2times^4C_23 = frac2times12!times6!times6!times4!3times6!times6!times3!times2!times2!=frac12!times4!3times2!=frac4times12!5$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
When you are continuously choosing the objects from the same group, you may probably be permuting them. For example, consider the formula in your question:
$$binom63binom33.$$
For any given outcome, say $A,B,CD,E,F$, from this formula, all other permutations (in this case only $D,E,FA,B,C$) exists. So you are actually permuting them. Since they mean the same in your question, you have to divide it by $2!$.
i.e. both are of same size and are chosen from the same group, so we actually permuted them. Therefore we don't have to consider repetition for $binom64binom22$, and $binom21binom21$ (which is the case of choosing an apple out of two fruits and an orange out of two fruits).
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
13
down vote
accepted
The fact that ordering does not matter within a group is already taken care of by the binomial coefficients. The additional $2!$ and $3!$ you see in the answer are taking care of the fact that the order in which the groups themselves were chosen also does not matter.
For example, if your two-person groups are $A, B$, $C, D$, and $E, F$, then the following arrangements are all the same:
$A, B$, $C, D$, $E, F$
$A, B$, $E, F$, $C, D$
$C, D$, $A, B$, $E, F$
$C, D$, $E, F$, $A, B$
$E, F$, $A, B$, $C, D$
$E, F$, $C, D$, $A, B$
Notice there are $3!$ such arrangements. When you just multiply your binomial coefficients together, however, these all get counted as distinct. Dividing by $3!$ collapses these all into a single arrangement.
To give another example with a better selection of numbers, suppose you want to arrange 6 people into three groups of two each. This would be given by
$$
fracbinom62 binom42 binom223!.
$$
Again, the $3!$ is coming from the number of groups, not their size.
add a comment |Â
up vote
13
down vote
accepted
The fact that ordering does not matter within a group is already taken care of by the binomial coefficients. The additional $2!$ and $3!$ you see in the answer are taking care of the fact that the order in which the groups themselves were chosen also does not matter.
For example, if your two-person groups are $A, B$, $C, D$, and $E, F$, then the following arrangements are all the same:
$A, B$, $C, D$, $E, F$
$A, B$, $E, F$, $C, D$
$C, D$, $A, B$, $E, F$
$C, D$, $E, F$, $A, B$
$E, F$, $A, B$, $C, D$
$E, F$, $C, D$, $A, B$
Notice there are $3!$ such arrangements. When you just multiply your binomial coefficients together, however, these all get counted as distinct. Dividing by $3!$ collapses these all into a single arrangement.
To give another example with a better selection of numbers, suppose you want to arrange 6 people into three groups of two each. This would be given by
$$
fracbinom62 binom42 binom223!.
$$
Again, the $3!$ is coming from the number of groups, not their size.
add a comment |Â
up vote
13
down vote
accepted
up vote
13
down vote
accepted
The fact that ordering does not matter within a group is already taken care of by the binomial coefficients. The additional $2!$ and $3!$ you see in the answer are taking care of the fact that the order in which the groups themselves were chosen also does not matter.
For example, if your two-person groups are $A, B$, $C, D$, and $E, F$, then the following arrangements are all the same:
$A, B$, $C, D$, $E, F$
$A, B$, $E, F$, $C, D$
$C, D$, $A, B$, $E, F$
$C, D$, $E, F$, $A, B$
$E, F$, $A, B$, $C, D$
$E, F$, $C, D$, $A, B$
Notice there are $3!$ such arrangements. When you just multiply your binomial coefficients together, however, these all get counted as distinct. Dividing by $3!$ collapses these all into a single arrangement.
To give another example with a better selection of numbers, suppose you want to arrange 6 people into three groups of two each. This would be given by
$$
fracbinom62 binom42 binom223!.
$$
Again, the $3!$ is coming from the number of groups, not their size.
The fact that ordering does not matter within a group is already taken care of by the binomial coefficients. The additional $2!$ and $3!$ you see in the answer are taking care of the fact that the order in which the groups themselves were chosen also does not matter.
For example, if your two-person groups are $A, B$, $C, D$, and $E, F$, then the following arrangements are all the same:
$A, B$, $C, D$, $E, F$
$A, B$, $E, F$, $C, D$
$C, D$, $A, B$, $E, F$
$C, D$, $E, F$, $A, B$
$E, F$, $A, B$, $C, D$
$E, F$, $C, D$, $A, B$
Notice there are $3!$ such arrangements. When you just multiply your binomial coefficients together, however, these all get counted as distinct. Dividing by $3!$ collapses these all into a single arrangement.
To give another example with a better selection of numbers, suppose you want to arrange 6 people into three groups of two each. This would be given by
$$
fracbinom62 binom42 binom223!.
$$
Again, the $3!$ is coming from the number of groups, not their size.
edited Sep 17 '11 at 18:02
answered Sep 17 '11 at 17:46
Austin Mohr
19.7k34997
19.7k34997
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
The number of ways of chosing r objects from a collection of n, $^nC_r$, is $fracn!r!(1-r)!$
There are $^12C_6$ ways to divide into 2 groups of 6. Then $^6C_3$ ways to divide a group of 6 into 2 groups of 3, $^6C_2$ ways to split into a 2 and a 4 and $^4C_2$ ways to split each 4 into 2s but then 15 of the possibilities would be identical. So it is $$frac^12C_6times2times^6C_3times^6C_2times^4C_23 = frac2times12!times6!times6!times4!3times6!times6!times3!times2!times2!=frac12!times4!3times2!=frac4times12!5$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
The number of ways of chosing r objects from a collection of n, $^nC_r$, is $fracn!r!(1-r)!$
There are $^12C_6$ ways to divide into 2 groups of 6. Then $^6C_3$ ways to divide a group of 6 into 2 groups of 3, $^6C_2$ ways to split into a 2 and a 4 and $^4C_2$ ways to split each 4 into 2s but then 15 of the possibilities would be identical. So it is $$frac^12C_6times2times^6C_3times^6C_2times^4C_23 = frac2times12!times6!times6!times4!3times6!times6!times3!times2!times2!=frac12!times4!3times2!=frac4times12!5$$
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
The number of ways of chosing r objects from a collection of n, $^nC_r$, is $fracn!r!(1-r)!$
There are $^12C_6$ ways to divide into 2 groups of 6. Then $^6C_3$ ways to divide a group of 6 into 2 groups of 3, $^6C_2$ ways to split into a 2 and a 4 and $^4C_2$ ways to split each 4 into 2s but then 15 of the possibilities would be identical. So it is $$frac^12C_6times2times^6C_3times^6C_2times^4C_23 = frac2times12!times6!times6!times4!3times6!times6!times3!times2!times2!=frac12!times4!3times2!=frac4times12!5$$
The number of ways of chosing r objects from a collection of n, $^nC_r$, is $fracn!r!(1-r)!$
There are $^12C_6$ ways to divide into 2 groups of 6. Then $^6C_3$ ways to divide a group of 6 into 2 groups of 3, $^6C_2$ ways to split into a 2 and a 4 and $^4C_2$ ways to split each 4 into 2s but then 15 of the possibilities would be identical. So it is $$frac^12C_6times2times^6C_3times^6C_2times^4C_23 = frac2times12!times6!times6!times4!3times6!times6!times3!times2!times2!=frac12!times4!3times2!=frac4times12!5$$
edited Jun 9 '13 at 12:13
Five
1728
1728
answered Sep 17 '11 at 17:57
Angela Richardson
5,17911532
5,17911532
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
When you are continuously choosing the objects from the same group, you may probably be permuting them. For example, consider the formula in your question:
$$binom63binom33.$$
For any given outcome, say $A,B,CD,E,F$, from this formula, all other permutations (in this case only $D,E,FA,B,C$) exists. So you are actually permuting them. Since they mean the same in your question, you have to divide it by $2!$.
i.e. both are of same size and are chosen from the same group, so we actually permuted them. Therefore we don't have to consider repetition for $binom64binom22$, and $binom21binom21$ (which is the case of choosing an apple out of two fruits and an orange out of two fruits).
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
When you are continuously choosing the objects from the same group, you may probably be permuting them. For example, consider the formula in your question:
$$binom63binom33.$$
For any given outcome, say $A,B,CD,E,F$, from this formula, all other permutations (in this case only $D,E,FA,B,C$) exists. So you are actually permuting them. Since they mean the same in your question, you have to divide it by $2!$.
i.e. both are of same size and are chosen from the same group, so we actually permuted them. Therefore we don't have to consider repetition for $binom64binom22$, and $binom21binom21$ (which is the case of choosing an apple out of two fruits and an orange out of two fruits).
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
When you are continuously choosing the objects from the same group, you may probably be permuting them. For example, consider the formula in your question:
$$binom63binom33.$$
For any given outcome, say $A,B,CD,E,F$, from this formula, all other permutations (in this case only $D,E,FA,B,C$) exists. So you are actually permuting them. Since they mean the same in your question, you have to divide it by $2!$.
i.e. both are of same size and are chosen from the same group, so we actually permuted them. Therefore we don't have to consider repetition for $binom64binom22$, and $binom21binom21$ (which is the case of choosing an apple out of two fruits and an orange out of two fruits).
When you are continuously choosing the objects from the same group, you may probably be permuting them. For example, consider the formula in your question:
$$binom63binom33.$$
For any given outcome, say $A,B,CD,E,F$, from this formula, all other permutations (in this case only $D,E,FA,B,C$) exists. So you are actually permuting them. Since they mean the same in your question, you have to divide it by $2!$.
i.e. both are of same size and are chosen from the same group, so we actually permuted them. Therefore we don't have to consider repetition for $binom64binom22$, and $binom21binom21$ (which is the case of choosing an apple out of two fruits and an orange out of two fruits).
edited Aug 16 at 4:35
kung_foo
52
52
answered Mar 31 at 3:45
Nong
1,1541521
1,1541521
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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3
I think the question is designed to confuse students by using the numbers 2 and 3 in two different ways. If you find it confusing, think about this related problem: How many ways to divide a group of 58 people into 4 groups of 7 people and 6 groups of 5 people?
â Srivatsan
Sep 17 '11 at 18:00
Thanks guys, i can see my mistake clearly now! @Srivatsan, Austin Mohr
â MichaelS
Sep 17 '11 at 18:05
Zero and zero, respectively.
â Alexander Gruberâ¦
Sep 10 '13 at 18:13