Prove or disprove $ A^4 + B^4 $ can be diagonalized

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Let $ A,B $ be two $ 3times3 $ matrices over $ mathbb R $ and $ A^t = -A, B^t = B $
I need to prove or disprove that $ A^4 + B^4 $ can be diagonalised over $ mathbb R $.



I really couldn't think of any direction to this. Any hints?







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    up vote
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    Let $ A,B $ be two $ 3times3 $ matrices over $ mathbb R $ and $ A^t = -A, B^t = B $
    I need to prove or disprove that $ A^4 + B^4 $ can be diagonalised over $ mathbb R $.



    I really couldn't think of any direction to this. Any hints?







    share|cite|improve this question
























      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite
      1









      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite
      1






      1





      Let $ A,B $ be two $ 3times3 $ matrices over $ mathbb R $ and $ A^t = -A, B^t = B $
      I need to prove or disprove that $ A^4 + B^4 $ can be diagonalised over $ mathbb R $.



      I really couldn't think of any direction to this. Any hints?







      share|cite|improve this question














      Let $ A,B $ be two $ 3times3 $ matrices over $ mathbb R $ and $ A^t = -A, B^t = B $
      I need to prove or disprove that $ A^4 + B^4 $ can be diagonalised over $ mathbb R $.



      I really couldn't think of any direction to this. Any hints?









      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Aug 26 at 22:51









      José Carlos Santos

      119k16101182




      119k16101182










      asked Aug 26 at 22:20









      bm1125

      38016




      38016




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          5
          down vote



          accepted










          Hint: One of your matrices is skew-symmetric, whereas the other one is symmetric. Deduce from that fact that $A^4+B^4$ is symmetric and use that fact.






          share|cite|improve this answer






















          • $B$ is symmetric, not skew. (But the conclusion is the same).
            – Henning Makholm
            Aug 26 at 22:23











          • @HenningMakholm I've edited my answer. Thank you.
            – José Carlos Santos
            Aug 26 at 22:26










          • Well I did find out that $ A^4 $ is symmetric and $ B^4 $ also symmetric because it's exchangeable and so $ A^4 + B^4 $ would be symmetric and so (according to some online paper) any symmetric matrix of n has exactly n eigenvalues , not necessarily distinct. Yet I haven't found in my books any proof for that if $ A^t = -A rightarrow A^2 = A^2^T $ and that any symmetric matrix has exactly n eigenvalues.
            – bm1125
            Aug 26 at 22:52







          • 1




            Sure, it may have repeated eigenvalues. Nevertheless, the spectral theorem says that every real symmetric matrix is diagonalizable.
            – José Carlos Santos
            Aug 26 at 22:56

















          up vote
          1
          down vote













          Since



          $A^T = -A, tag 1$



          we have, for any $n in Bbb N$



          $(A^2n)^T = (A^T)^2n = ((A^T)^2)^n = ((-A)^2)^n = (A^2)^n = A^2n; tag 2$



          thus, $A^2n$ is symmetric; since



          $B^T = B, tag 3$



          we also have



          $(B^2n)^T = (B^T)^2n = B^2n, tag 4$



          so $B^2n$ is also symmetric; therefore



          $(A^2n + B^2n)^T = (A^2n)^T + (B^2n)^T = A^2n + B^2n tag 5$



          is symmetric as well for any $n in Bbb N$, hence diagonalizable over $Bbb R$.



          Taking $n = 2$ yields the result required for the specific case at hand.



          In the above we have used the general property that



          $(C^T)^m = (C^m)^T tag 6$



          for any $m in Bbb N$; this is easily seen by a simple induction: when $m = 2$, we have, since $(CD)^T = D^T C^T$ for any two square matrices of the same size,



          $(C^T)^2 = C^T C^T = (CC)^T = (C^2)^T; tag 7$



          now if



          $(C^T)^k = (C^k)^T, tag 8$



          then,



          $(C^T)^k + 1 = C^T (C^T)^k = C^T(C^k)^T = (C^k C)^T = (C^k + 1)^T, tag 9$



          completing the induction and finalizing our proof of (5).



          Note that the hypothesis that $A, B$ are $3 times 3$ is not needed here; the rusult holds no matter what the size of $A$ and $B$ might be.






          share|cite|improve this answer




















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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes








            up vote
            5
            down vote



            accepted










            Hint: One of your matrices is skew-symmetric, whereas the other one is symmetric. Deduce from that fact that $A^4+B^4$ is symmetric and use that fact.






            share|cite|improve this answer






















            • $B$ is symmetric, not skew. (But the conclusion is the same).
              – Henning Makholm
              Aug 26 at 22:23











            • @HenningMakholm I've edited my answer. Thank you.
              – José Carlos Santos
              Aug 26 at 22:26










            • Well I did find out that $ A^4 $ is symmetric and $ B^4 $ also symmetric because it's exchangeable and so $ A^4 + B^4 $ would be symmetric and so (according to some online paper) any symmetric matrix of n has exactly n eigenvalues , not necessarily distinct. Yet I haven't found in my books any proof for that if $ A^t = -A rightarrow A^2 = A^2^T $ and that any symmetric matrix has exactly n eigenvalues.
              – bm1125
              Aug 26 at 22:52







            • 1




              Sure, it may have repeated eigenvalues. Nevertheless, the spectral theorem says that every real symmetric matrix is diagonalizable.
              – José Carlos Santos
              Aug 26 at 22:56














            up vote
            5
            down vote



            accepted










            Hint: One of your matrices is skew-symmetric, whereas the other one is symmetric. Deduce from that fact that $A^4+B^4$ is symmetric and use that fact.






            share|cite|improve this answer






















            • $B$ is symmetric, not skew. (But the conclusion is the same).
              – Henning Makholm
              Aug 26 at 22:23











            • @HenningMakholm I've edited my answer. Thank you.
              – José Carlos Santos
              Aug 26 at 22:26










            • Well I did find out that $ A^4 $ is symmetric and $ B^4 $ also symmetric because it's exchangeable and so $ A^4 + B^4 $ would be symmetric and so (according to some online paper) any symmetric matrix of n has exactly n eigenvalues , not necessarily distinct. Yet I haven't found in my books any proof for that if $ A^t = -A rightarrow A^2 = A^2^T $ and that any symmetric matrix has exactly n eigenvalues.
              – bm1125
              Aug 26 at 22:52







            • 1




              Sure, it may have repeated eigenvalues. Nevertheless, the spectral theorem says that every real symmetric matrix is diagonalizable.
              – José Carlos Santos
              Aug 26 at 22:56












            up vote
            5
            down vote



            accepted







            up vote
            5
            down vote



            accepted






            Hint: One of your matrices is skew-symmetric, whereas the other one is symmetric. Deduce from that fact that $A^4+B^4$ is symmetric and use that fact.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            Hint: One of your matrices is skew-symmetric, whereas the other one is symmetric. Deduce from that fact that $A^4+B^4$ is symmetric and use that fact.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Aug 26 at 22:25

























            answered Aug 26 at 22:22









            José Carlos Santos

            119k16101182




            119k16101182











            • $B$ is symmetric, not skew. (But the conclusion is the same).
              – Henning Makholm
              Aug 26 at 22:23











            • @HenningMakholm I've edited my answer. Thank you.
              – José Carlos Santos
              Aug 26 at 22:26










            • Well I did find out that $ A^4 $ is symmetric and $ B^4 $ also symmetric because it's exchangeable and so $ A^4 + B^4 $ would be symmetric and so (according to some online paper) any symmetric matrix of n has exactly n eigenvalues , not necessarily distinct. Yet I haven't found in my books any proof for that if $ A^t = -A rightarrow A^2 = A^2^T $ and that any symmetric matrix has exactly n eigenvalues.
              – bm1125
              Aug 26 at 22:52







            • 1




              Sure, it may have repeated eigenvalues. Nevertheless, the spectral theorem says that every real symmetric matrix is diagonalizable.
              – José Carlos Santos
              Aug 26 at 22:56
















            • $B$ is symmetric, not skew. (But the conclusion is the same).
              – Henning Makholm
              Aug 26 at 22:23











            • @HenningMakholm I've edited my answer. Thank you.
              – José Carlos Santos
              Aug 26 at 22:26










            • Well I did find out that $ A^4 $ is symmetric and $ B^4 $ also symmetric because it's exchangeable and so $ A^4 + B^4 $ would be symmetric and so (according to some online paper) any symmetric matrix of n has exactly n eigenvalues , not necessarily distinct. Yet I haven't found in my books any proof for that if $ A^t = -A rightarrow A^2 = A^2^T $ and that any symmetric matrix has exactly n eigenvalues.
              – bm1125
              Aug 26 at 22:52







            • 1




              Sure, it may have repeated eigenvalues. Nevertheless, the spectral theorem says that every real symmetric matrix is diagonalizable.
              – José Carlos Santos
              Aug 26 at 22:56















            $B$ is symmetric, not skew. (But the conclusion is the same).
            – Henning Makholm
            Aug 26 at 22:23





            $B$ is symmetric, not skew. (But the conclusion is the same).
            – Henning Makholm
            Aug 26 at 22:23













            @HenningMakholm I've edited my answer. Thank you.
            – José Carlos Santos
            Aug 26 at 22:26




            @HenningMakholm I've edited my answer. Thank you.
            – José Carlos Santos
            Aug 26 at 22:26












            Well I did find out that $ A^4 $ is symmetric and $ B^4 $ also symmetric because it's exchangeable and so $ A^4 + B^4 $ would be symmetric and so (according to some online paper) any symmetric matrix of n has exactly n eigenvalues , not necessarily distinct. Yet I haven't found in my books any proof for that if $ A^t = -A rightarrow A^2 = A^2^T $ and that any symmetric matrix has exactly n eigenvalues.
            – bm1125
            Aug 26 at 22:52





            Well I did find out that $ A^4 $ is symmetric and $ B^4 $ also symmetric because it's exchangeable and so $ A^4 + B^4 $ would be symmetric and so (according to some online paper) any symmetric matrix of n has exactly n eigenvalues , not necessarily distinct. Yet I haven't found in my books any proof for that if $ A^t = -A rightarrow A^2 = A^2^T $ and that any symmetric matrix has exactly n eigenvalues.
            – bm1125
            Aug 26 at 22:52





            1




            1




            Sure, it may have repeated eigenvalues. Nevertheless, the spectral theorem says that every real symmetric matrix is diagonalizable.
            – José Carlos Santos
            Aug 26 at 22:56




            Sure, it may have repeated eigenvalues. Nevertheless, the spectral theorem says that every real symmetric matrix is diagonalizable.
            – José Carlos Santos
            Aug 26 at 22:56










            up vote
            1
            down vote













            Since



            $A^T = -A, tag 1$



            we have, for any $n in Bbb N$



            $(A^2n)^T = (A^T)^2n = ((A^T)^2)^n = ((-A)^2)^n = (A^2)^n = A^2n; tag 2$



            thus, $A^2n$ is symmetric; since



            $B^T = B, tag 3$



            we also have



            $(B^2n)^T = (B^T)^2n = B^2n, tag 4$



            so $B^2n$ is also symmetric; therefore



            $(A^2n + B^2n)^T = (A^2n)^T + (B^2n)^T = A^2n + B^2n tag 5$



            is symmetric as well for any $n in Bbb N$, hence diagonalizable over $Bbb R$.



            Taking $n = 2$ yields the result required for the specific case at hand.



            In the above we have used the general property that



            $(C^T)^m = (C^m)^T tag 6$



            for any $m in Bbb N$; this is easily seen by a simple induction: when $m = 2$, we have, since $(CD)^T = D^T C^T$ for any two square matrices of the same size,



            $(C^T)^2 = C^T C^T = (CC)^T = (C^2)^T; tag 7$



            now if



            $(C^T)^k = (C^k)^T, tag 8$



            then,



            $(C^T)^k + 1 = C^T (C^T)^k = C^T(C^k)^T = (C^k C)^T = (C^k + 1)^T, tag 9$



            completing the induction and finalizing our proof of (5).



            Note that the hypothesis that $A, B$ are $3 times 3$ is not needed here; the rusult holds no matter what the size of $A$ and $B$ might be.






            share|cite|improve this answer
























              up vote
              1
              down vote













              Since



              $A^T = -A, tag 1$



              we have, for any $n in Bbb N$



              $(A^2n)^T = (A^T)^2n = ((A^T)^2)^n = ((-A)^2)^n = (A^2)^n = A^2n; tag 2$



              thus, $A^2n$ is symmetric; since



              $B^T = B, tag 3$



              we also have



              $(B^2n)^T = (B^T)^2n = B^2n, tag 4$



              so $B^2n$ is also symmetric; therefore



              $(A^2n + B^2n)^T = (A^2n)^T + (B^2n)^T = A^2n + B^2n tag 5$



              is symmetric as well for any $n in Bbb N$, hence diagonalizable over $Bbb R$.



              Taking $n = 2$ yields the result required for the specific case at hand.



              In the above we have used the general property that



              $(C^T)^m = (C^m)^T tag 6$



              for any $m in Bbb N$; this is easily seen by a simple induction: when $m = 2$, we have, since $(CD)^T = D^T C^T$ for any two square matrices of the same size,



              $(C^T)^2 = C^T C^T = (CC)^T = (C^2)^T; tag 7$



              now if



              $(C^T)^k = (C^k)^T, tag 8$



              then,



              $(C^T)^k + 1 = C^T (C^T)^k = C^T(C^k)^T = (C^k C)^T = (C^k + 1)^T, tag 9$



              completing the induction and finalizing our proof of (5).



              Note that the hypothesis that $A, B$ are $3 times 3$ is not needed here; the rusult holds no matter what the size of $A$ and $B$ might be.






              share|cite|improve this answer






















                up vote
                1
                down vote










                up vote
                1
                down vote









                Since



                $A^T = -A, tag 1$



                we have, for any $n in Bbb N$



                $(A^2n)^T = (A^T)^2n = ((A^T)^2)^n = ((-A)^2)^n = (A^2)^n = A^2n; tag 2$



                thus, $A^2n$ is symmetric; since



                $B^T = B, tag 3$



                we also have



                $(B^2n)^T = (B^T)^2n = B^2n, tag 4$



                so $B^2n$ is also symmetric; therefore



                $(A^2n + B^2n)^T = (A^2n)^T + (B^2n)^T = A^2n + B^2n tag 5$



                is symmetric as well for any $n in Bbb N$, hence diagonalizable over $Bbb R$.



                Taking $n = 2$ yields the result required for the specific case at hand.



                In the above we have used the general property that



                $(C^T)^m = (C^m)^T tag 6$



                for any $m in Bbb N$; this is easily seen by a simple induction: when $m = 2$, we have, since $(CD)^T = D^T C^T$ for any two square matrices of the same size,



                $(C^T)^2 = C^T C^T = (CC)^T = (C^2)^T; tag 7$



                now if



                $(C^T)^k = (C^k)^T, tag 8$



                then,



                $(C^T)^k + 1 = C^T (C^T)^k = C^T(C^k)^T = (C^k C)^T = (C^k + 1)^T, tag 9$



                completing the induction and finalizing our proof of (5).



                Note that the hypothesis that $A, B$ are $3 times 3$ is not needed here; the rusult holds no matter what the size of $A$ and $B$ might be.






                share|cite|improve this answer












                Since



                $A^T = -A, tag 1$



                we have, for any $n in Bbb N$



                $(A^2n)^T = (A^T)^2n = ((A^T)^2)^n = ((-A)^2)^n = (A^2)^n = A^2n; tag 2$



                thus, $A^2n$ is symmetric; since



                $B^T = B, tag 3$



                we also have



                $(B^2n)^T = (B^T)^2n = B^2n, tag 4$



                so $B^2n$ is also symmetric; therefore



                $(A^2n + B^2n)^T = (A^2n)^T + (B^2n)^T = A^2n + B^2n tag 5$



                is symmetric as well for any $n in Bbb N$, hence diagonalizable over $Bbb R$.



                Taking $n = 2$ yields the result required for the specific case at hand.



                In the above we have used the general property that



                $(C^T)^m = (C^m)^T tag 6$



                for any $m in Bbb N$; this is easily seen by a simple induction: when $m = 2$, we have, since $(CD)^T = D^T C^T$ for any two square matrices of the same size,



                $(C^T)^2 = C^T C^T = (CC)^T = (C^2)^T; tag 7$



                now if



                $(C^T)^k = (C^k)^T, tag 8$



                then,



                $(C^T)^k + 1 = C^T (C^T)^k = C^T(C^k)^T = (C^k C)^T = (C^k + 1)^T, tag 9$



                completing the induction and finalizing our proof of (5).



                Note that the hypothesis that $A, B$ are $3 times 3$ is not needed here; the rusult holds no matter what the size of $A$ and $B$ might be.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Aug 26 at 22:59









                Robert Lewis

                38k22357




                38k22357



























                     

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