Is there a LCA group $G$ such that $G/mathbbTcongmathbbR$?

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I'm looking for an example to the following situation:



A locally compact abelian (LCA) group $G$ (I assume that the groups are Hausdorff) .



A (closed) subgroup $H$ of $G$ which is isomorphic (as topological group) to the circle $mathbbTcong mathbbR/mathbbZ$.



Such that the quotient $G/H$ induced with the quotient topology is isomorphic to $mathbbR$, but $Gnot = mathbbRtimesmathbbT$.







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  • 1




    If $mathbbT$ is a closed subgroup of $G$, then we get a continuous surjection $G^*tomathbbZ$ (using Pontryagin duality), which splits.
    – egreg
    Aug 26 at 21:08










  • @egreg I know it splits if $G$ is compact, are you sure this holds in the locally compact case as well?
    – Yanko
    Aug 26 at 21:08






  • 1




    Pontryagin duality sends monomorphisms into epimorphisms; an epimorphism of LCA groups with discrete codomain is surjective (because the image must be dense). Any homomorphism from $mathbbZ$ into a LCA group is obviously continuous. Apply Pontryagin duality again.
    – egreg
    Aug 26 at 21:15














up vote
0
down vote

favorite












I'm looking for an example to the following situation:



A locally compact abelian (LCA) group $G$ (I assume that the groups are Hausdorff) .



A (closed) subgroup $H$ of $G$ which is isomorphic (as topological group) to the circle $mathbbTcong mathbbR/mathbbZ$.



Such that the quotient $G/H$ induced with the quotient topology is isomorphic to $mathbbR$, but $Gnot = mathbbRtimesmathbbT$.







share|cite|improve this question
















  • 1




    If $mathbbT$ is a closed subgroup of $G$, then we get a continuous surjection $G^*tomathbbZ$ (using Pontryagin duality), which splits.
    – egreg
    Aug 26 at 21:08










  • @egreg I know it splits if $G$ is compact, are you sure this holds in the locally compact case as well?
    – Yanko
    Aug 26 at 21:08






  • 1




    Pontryagin duality sends monomorphisms into epimorphisms; an epimorphism of LCA groups with discrete codomain is surjective (because the image must be dense). Any homomorphism from $mathbbZ$ into a LCA group is obviously continuous. Apply Pontryagin duality again.
    – egreg
    Aug 26 at 21:15












up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite











I'm looking for an example to the following situation:



A locally compact abelian (LCA) group $G$ (I assume that the groups are Hausdorff) .



A (closed) subgroup $H$ of $G$ which is isomorphic (as topological group) to the circle $mathbbTcong mathbbR/mathbbZ$.



Such that the quotient $G/H$ induced with the quotient topology is isomorphic to $mathbbR$, but $Gnot = mathbbRtimesmathbbT$.







share|cite|improve this question












I'm looking for an example to the following situation:



A locally compact abelian (LCA) group $G$ (I assume that the groups are Hausdorff) .



A (closed) subgroup $H$ of $G$ which is isomorphic (as topological group) to the circle $mathbbTcong mathbbR/mathbbZ$.



Such that the quotient $G/H$ induced with the quotient topology is isomorphic to $mathbbR$, but $Gnot = mathbbRtimesmathbbT$.









share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked Aug 26 at 20:56









Yanko

3,570620




3,570620







  • 1




    If $mathbbT$ is a closed subgroup of $G$, then we get a continuous surjection $G^*tomathbbZ$ (using Pontryagin duality), which splits.
    – egreg
    Aug 26 at 21:08










  • @egreg I know it splits if $G$ is compact, are you sure this holds in the locally compact case as well?
    – Yanko
    Aug 26 at 21:08






  • 1




    Pontryagin duality sends monomorphisms into epimorphisms; an epimorphism of LCA groups with discrete codomain is surjective (because the image must be dense). Any homomorphism from $mathbbZ$ into a LCA group is obviously continuous. Apply Pontryagin duality again.
    – egreg
    Aug 26 at 21:15












  • 1




    If $mathbbT$ is a closed subgroup of $G$, then we get a continuous surjection $G^*tomathbbZ$ (using Pontryagin duality), which splits.
    – egreg
    Aug 26 at 21:08










  • @egreg I know it splits if $G$ is compact, are you sure this holds in the locally compact case as well?
    – Yanko
    Aug 26 at 21:08






  • 1




    Pontryagin duality sends monomorphisms into epimorphisms; an epimorphism of LCA groups with discrete codomain is surjective (because the image must be dense). Any homomorphism from $mathbbZ$ into a LCA group is obviously continuous. Apply Pontryagin duality again.
    – egreg
    Aug 26 at 21:15







1




1




If $mathbbT$ is a closed subgroup of $G$, then we get a continuous surjection $G^*tomathbbZ$ (using Pontryagin duality), which splits.
– egreg
Aug 26 at 21:08




If $mathbbT$ is a closed subgroup of $G$, then we get a continuous surjection $G^*tomathbbZ$ (using Pontryagin duality), which splits.
– egreg
Aug 26 at 21:08












@egreg I know it splits if $G$ is compact, are you sure this holds in the locally compact case as well?
– Yanko
Aug 26 at 21:08




@egreg I know it splits if $G$ is compact, are you sure this holds in the locally compact case as well?
– Yanko
Aug 26 at 21:08




1




1




Pontryagin duality sends monomorphisms into epimorphisms; an epimorphism of LCA groups with discrete codomain is surjective (because the image must be dense). Any homomorphism from $mathbbZ$ into a LCA group is obviously continuous. Apply Pontryagin duality again.
– egreg
Aug 26 at 21:15




Pontryagin duality sends monomorphisms into epimorphisms; an epimorphism of LCA groups with discrete codomain is surjective (because the image must be dense). Any homomorphism from $mathbbZ$ into a LCA group is obviously continuous. Apply Pontryagin duality again.
– egreg
Aug 26 at 21:15










2 Answers
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This is not possible. By taking Pontryagin duals of everything, this is equivalent to asking for a locally compact abelian group $A$ with a closed subgroup $BcongmathbbR$ such that $A/BcongmathbbZ$ with the discrete topology, but $Anotcong mathbbRtimesmathbbZ$. Since $A/B$ is discrete, $A$ is topologically just the disjoint union of the cosets of $B$. Picking any element $ain A$ whose image in $A/B$ is a generator, then every element of $A$ is in the same connected component as a unique multiple of $a$ so we get a topological isomorphism $BtimesmathbbZto A$ by mapping $(b,n)$ to $b+na$.



(Note that in fact this argument does not require that $BcongmathbbR$, and requires only that $A/B$ is a free abelian group with the discrete topology. So dually, all that is required of your $H$ is that it is topologically isomorphic to a product of copies of $mathbbT$, and we can conclude that $Gcong Htimes G/H$.)






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    If $fcolonmathbbTto G$ is an embedding of LCA groups, then Pontryagin duality gives an epimorphism $f^*colon G^*tomathbbT^*=mathbbZ$. Since the codomain is discrete and the image of $f^*$ is dense, $f^*$ is surjective. Therefore there exists $gcolonmathbbZto G^*$ such that $f^*circ g$ is the identity.



    Apply Pontryagin duality again to get $hcolon GtomathbbT$ such that $hcirc f$ is the identity. Hence $G$ is topologically isomorphic to $mathbbTtimes G/mathbbT$, by abstract nonsense.






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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes








      2 Answers
      2






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      active

      oldest

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      up vote
      2
      down vote



      accepted










      This is not possible. By taking Pontryagin duals of everything, this is equivalent to asking for a locally compact abelian group $A$ with a closed subgroup $BcongmathbbR$ such that $A/BcongmathbbZ$ with the discrete topology, but $Anotcong mathbbRtimesmathbbZ$. Since $A/B$ is discrete, $A$ is topologically just the disjoint union of the cosets of $B$. Picking any element $ain A$ whose image in $A/B$ is a generator, then every element of $A$ is in the same connected component as a unique multiple of $a$ so we get a topological isomorphism $BtimesmathbbZto A$ by mapping $(b,n)$ to $b+na$.



      (Note that in fact this argument does not require that $BcongmathbbR$, and requires only that $A/B$ is a free abelian group with the discrete topology. So dually, all that is required of your $H$ is that it is topologically isomorphic to a product of copies of $mathbbT$, and we can conclude that $Gcong Htimes G/H$.)






      share|cite|improve this answer
























        up vote
        2
        down vote



        accepted










        This is not possible. By taking Pontryagin duals of everything, this is equivalent to asking for a locally compact abelian group $A$ with a closed subgroup $BcongmathbbR$ such that $A/BcongmathbbZ$ with the discrete topology, but $Anotcong mathbbRtimesmathbbZ$. Since $A/B$ is discrete, $A$ is topologically just the disjoint union of the cosets of $B$. Picking any element $ain A$ whose image in $A/B$ is a generator, then every element of $A$ is in the same connected component as a unique multiple of $a$ so we get a topological isomorphism $BtimesmathbbZto A$ by mapping $(b,n)$ to $b+na$.



        (Note that in fact this argument does not require that $BcongmathbbR$, and requires only that $A/B$ is a free abelian group with the discrete topology. So dually, all that is required of your $H$ is that it is topologically isomorphic to a product of copies of $mathbbT$, and we can conclude that $Gcong Htimes G/H$.)






        share|cite|improve this answer






















          up vote
          2
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          2
          down vote



          accepted






          This is not possible. By taking Pontryagin duals of everything, this is equivalent to asking for a locally compact abelian group $A$ with a closed subgroup $BcongmathbbR$ such that $A/BcongmathbbZ$ with the discrete topology, but $Anotcong mathbbRtimesmathbbZ$. Since $A/B$ is discrete, $A$ is topologically just the disjoint union of the cosets of $B$. Picking any element $ain A$ whose image in $A/B$ is a generator, then every element of $A$ is in the same connected component as a unique multiple of $a$ so we get a topological isomorphism $BtimesmathbbZto A$ by mapping $(b,n)$ to $b+na$.



          (Note that in fact this argument does not require that $BcongmathbbR$, and requires only that $A/B$ is a free abelian group with the discrete topology. So dually, all that is required of your $H$ is that it is topologically isomorphic to a product of copies of $mathbbT$, and we can conclude that $Gcong Htimes G/H$.)






          share|cite|improve this answer












          This is not possible. By taking Pontryagin duals of everything, this is equivalent to asking for a locally compact abelian group $A$ with a closed subgroup $BcongmathbbR$ such that $A/BcongmathbbZ$ with the discrete topology, but $Anotcong mathbbRtimesmathbbZ$. Since $A/B$ is discrete, $A$ is topologically just the disjoint union of the cosets of $B$. Picking any element $ain A$ whose image in $A/B$ is a generator, then every element of $A$ is in the same connected component as a unique multiple of $a$ so we get a topological isomorphism $BtimesmathbbZto A$ by mapping $(b,n)$ to $b+na$.



          (Note that in fact this argument does not require that $BcongmathbbR$, and requires only that $A/B$ is a free abelian group with the discrete topology. So dually, all that is required of your $H$ is that it is topologically isomorphic to a product of copies of $mathbbT$, and we can conclude that $Gcong Htimes G/H$.)







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Aug 26 at 21:09









          Eric Wofsey

          165k12193307




          165k12193307




















              up vote
              3
              down vote













              If $fcolonmathbbTto G$ is an embedding of LCA groups, then Pontryagin duality gives an epimorphism $f^*colon G^*tomathbbT^*=mathbbZ$. Since the codomain is discrete and the image of $f^*$ is dense, $f^*$ is surjective. Therefore there exists $gcolonmathbbZto G^*$ such that $f^*circ g$ is the identity.



              Apply Pontryagin duality again to get $hcolon GtomathbbT$ such that $hcirc f$ is the identity. Hence $G$ is topologically isomorphic to $mathbbTtimes G/mathbbT$, by abstract nonsense.






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                up vote
                3
                down vote













                If $fcolonmathbbTto G$ is an embedding of LCA groups, then Pontryagin duality gives an epimorphism $f^*colon G^*tomathbbT^*=mathbbZ$. Since the codomain is discrete and the image of $f^*$ is dense, $f^*$ is surjective. Therefore there exists $gcolonmathbbZto G^*$ such that $f^*circ g$ is the identity.



                Apply Pontryagin duality again to get $hcolon GtomathbbT$ such that $hcirc f$ is the identity. Hence $G$ is topologically isomorphic to $mathbbTtimes G/mathbbT$, by abstract nonsense.






                share|cite|improve this answer






















                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote









                  If $fcolonmathbbTto G$ is an embedding of LCA groups, then Pontryagin duality gives an epimorphism $f^*colon G^*tomathbbT^*=mathbbZ$. Since the codomain is discrete and the image of $f^*$ is dense, $f^*$ is surjective. Therefore there exists $gcolonmathbbZto G^*$ such that $f^*circ g$ is the identity.



                  Apply Pontryagin duality again to get $hcolon GtomathbbT$ such that $hcirc f$ is the identity. Hence $G$ is topologically isomorphic to $mathbbTtimes G/mathbbT$, by abstract nonsense.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  If $fcolonmathbbTto G$ is an embedding of LCA groups, then Pontryagin duality gives an epimorphism $f^*colon G^*tomathbbT^*=mathbbZ$. Since the codomain is discrete and the image of $f^*$ is dense, $f^*$ is surjective. Therefore there exists $gcolonmathbbZto G^*$ such that $f^*circ g$ is the identity.



                  Apply Pontryagin duality again to get $hcolon GtomathbbT$ such that $hcirc f$ is the identity. Hence $G$ is topologically isomorphic to $mathbbTtimes G/mathbbT$, by abstract nonsense.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



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                  answered Aug 26 at 21:28









                  egreg

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