Is there a LCA group $G$ such that $G/mathbbTcongmathbbR$?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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I'm looking for an example to the following situation:
A locally compact abelian (LCA) group $G$ (I assume that the groups are Hausdorff) .
A (closed) subgroup $H$ of $G$ which is isomorphic (as topological group) to the circle $mathbbTcong mathbbR/mathbbZ$.
Such that the quotient $G/H$ induced with the quotient topology is isomorphic to $mathbbR$, but $Gnot = mathbbRtimesmathbbT$.
topological-groups
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up vote
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I'm looking for an example to the following situation:
A locally compact abelian (LCA) group $G$ (I assume that the groups are Hausdorff) .
A (closed) subgroup $H$ of $G$ which is isomorphic (as topological group) to the circle $mathbbTcong mathbbR/mathbbZ$.
Such that the quotient $G/H$ induced with the quotient topology is isomorphic to $mathbbR$, but $Gnot = mathbbRtimesmathbbT$.
topological-groups
1
If $mathbbT$ is a closed subgroup of $G$, then we get a continuous surjection $G^*tomathbbZ$ (using Pontryagin duality), which splits.
â egreg
Aug 26 at 21:08
@egreg I know it splits if $G$ is compact, are you sure this holds in the locally compact case as well?
â Yanko
Aug 26 at 21:08
1
Pontryagin duality sends monomorphisms into epimorphisms; an epimorphism of LCA groups with discrete codomain is surjective (because the image must be dense). Any homomorphism from $mathbbZ$ into a LCA group is obviously continuous. Apply Pontryagin duality again.
â egreg
Aug 26 at 21:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
I'm looking for an example to the following situation:
A locally compact abelian (LCA) group $G$ (I assume that the groups are Hausdorff) .
A (closed) subgroup $H$ of $G$ which is isomorphic (as topological group) to the circle $mathbbTcong mathbbR/mathbbZ$.
Such that the quotient $G/H$ induced with the quotient topology is isomorphic to $mathbbR$, but $Gnot = mathbbRtimesmathbbT$.
topological-groups
I'm looking for an example to the following situation:
A locally compact abelian (LCA) group $G$ (I assume that the groups are Hausdorff) .
A (closed) subgroup $H$ of $G$ which is isomorphic (as topological group) to the circle $mathbbTcong mathbbR/mathbbZ$.
Such that the quotient $G/H$ induced with the quotient topology is isomorphic to $mathbbR$, but $Gnot = mathbbRtimesmathbbT$.
topological-groups
asked Aug 26 at 20:56
Yanko
3,570620
3,570620
1
If $mathbbT$ is a closed subgroup of $G$, then we get a continuous surjection $G^*tomathbbZ$ (using Pontryagin duality), which splits.
â egreg
Aug 26 at 21:08
@egreg I know it splits if $G$ is compact, are you sure this holds in the locally compact case as well?
â Yanko
Aug 26 at 21:08
1
Pontryagin duality sends monomorphisms into epimorphisms; an epimorphism of LCA groups with discrete codomain is surjective (because the image must be dense). Any homomorphism from $mathbbZ$ into a LCA group is obviously continuous. Apply Pontryagin duality again.
â egreg
Aug 26 at 21:15
add a comment |Â
1
If $mathbbT$ is a closed subgroup of $G$, then we get a continuous surjection $G^*tomathbbZ$ (using Pontryagin duality), which splits.
â egreg
Aug 26 at 21:08
@egreg I know it splits if $G$ is compact, are you sure this holds in the locally compact case as well?
â Yanko
Aug 26 at 21:08
1
Pontryagin duality sends monomorphisms into epimorphisms; an epimorphism of LCA groups with discrete codomain is surjective (because the image must be dense). Any homomorphism from $mathbbZ$ into a LCA group is obviously continuous. Apply Pontryagin duality again.
â egreg
Aug 26 at 21:15
1
1
If $mathbbT$ is a closed subgroup of $G$, then we get a continuous surjection $G^*tomathbbZ$ (using Pontryagin duality), which splits.
â egreg
Aug 26 at 21:08
If $mathbbT$ is a closed subgroup of $G$, then we get a continuous surjection $G^*tomathbbZ$ (using Pontryagin duality), which splits.
â egreg
Aug 26 at 21:08
@egreg I know it splits if $G$ is compact, are you sure this holds in the locally compact case as well?
â Yanko
Aug 26 at 21:08
@egreg I know it splits if $G$ is compact, are you sure this holds in the locally compact case as well?
â Yanko
Aug 26 at 21:08
1
1
Pontryagin duality sends monomorphisms into epimorphisms; an epimorphism of LCA groups with discrete codomain is surjective (because the image must be dense). Any homomorphism from $mathbbZ$ into a LCA group is obviously continuous. Apply Pontryagin duality again.
â egreg
Aug 26 at 21:15
Pontryagin duality sends monomorphisms into epimorphisms; an epimorphism of LCA groups with discrete codomain is surjective (because the image must be dense). Any homomorphism from $mathbbZ$ into a LCA group is obviously continuous. Apply Pontryagin duality again.
â egreg
Aug 26 at 21:15
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
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This is not possible. By taking Pontryagin duals of everything, this is equivalent to asking for a locally compact abelian group $A$ with a closed subgroup $BcongmathbbR$ such that $A/BcongmathbbZ$ with the discrete topology, but $Anotcong mathbbRtimesmathbbZ$. Since $A/B$ is discrete, $A$ is topologically just the disjoint union of the cosets of $B$. Picking any element $ain A$ whose image in $A/B$ is a generator, then every element of $A$ is in the same connected component as a unique multiple of $a$ so we get a topological isomorphism $BtimesmathbbZto A$ by mapping $(b,n)$ to $b+na$.
(Note that in fact this argument does not require that $BcongmathbbR$, and requires only that $A/B$ is a free abelian group with the discrete topology. So dually, all that is required of your $H$ is that it is topologically isomorphic to a product of copies of $mathbbT$, and we can conclude that $Gcong Htimes G/H$.)
add a comment |Â
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If $fcolonmathbbTto G$ is an embedding of LCA groups, then Pontryagin duality gives an epimorphism $f^*colon G^*tomathbbT^*=mathbbZ$. Since the codomain is discrete and the image of $f^*$ is dense, $f^*$ is surjective. Therefore there exists $gcolonmathbbZto G^*$ such that $f^*circ g$ is the identity.
Apply Pontryagin duality again to get $hcolon GtomathbbT$ such that $hcirc f$ is the identity. Hence $G$ is topologically isomorphic to $mathbbTtimes G/mathbbT$, by abstract nonsense.
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
This is not possible. By taking Pontryagin duals of everything, this is equivalent to asking for a locally compact abelian group $A$ with a closed subgroup $BcongmathbbR$ such that $A/BcongmathbbZ$ with the discrete topology, but $Anotcong mathbbRtimesmathbbZ$. Since $A/B$ is discrete, $A$ is topologically just the disjoint union of the cosets of $B$. Picking any element $ain A$ whose image in $A/B$ is a generator, then every element of $A$ is in the same connected component as a unique multiple of $a$ so we get a topological isomorphism $BtimesmathbbZto A$ by mapping $(b,n)$ to $b+na$.
(Note that in fact this argument does not require that $BcongmathbbR$, and requires only that $A/B$ is a free abelian group with the discrete topology. So dually, all that is required of your $H$ is that it is topologically isomorphic to a product of copies of $mathbbT$, and we can conclude that $Gcong Htimes G/H$.)
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
This is not possible. By taking Pontryagin duals of everything, this is equivalent to asking for a locally compact abelian group $A$ with a closed subgroup $BcongmathbbR$ such that $A/BcongmathbbZ$ with the discrete topology, but $Anotcong mathbbRtimesmathbbZ$. Since $A/B$ is discrete, $A$ is topologically just the disjoint union of the cosets of $B$. Picking any element $ain A$ whose image in $A/B$ is a generator, then every element of $A$ is in the same connected component as a unique multiple of $a$ so we get a topological isomorphism $BtimesmathbbZto A$ by mapping $(b,n)$ to $b+na$.
(Note that in fact this argument does not require that $BcongmathbbR$, and requires only that $A/B$ is a free abelian group with the discrete topology. So dually, all that is required of your $H$ is that it is topologically isomorphic to a product of copies of $mathbbT$, and we can conclude that $Gcong Htimes G/H$.)
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
This is not possible. By taking Pontryagin duals of everything, this is equivalent to asking for a locally compact abelian group $A$ with a closed subgroup $BcongmathbbR$ such that $A/BcongmathbbZ$ with the discrete topology, but $Anotcong mathbbRtimesmathbbZ$. Since $A/B$ is discrete, $A$ is topologically just the disjoint union of the cosets of $B$. Picking any element $ain A$ whose image in $A/B$ is a generator, then every element of $A$ is in the same connected component as a unique multiple of $a$ so we get a topological isomorphism $BtimesmathbbZto A$ by mapping $(b,n)$ to $b+na$.
(Note that in fact this argument does not require that $BcongmathbbR$, and requires only that $A/B$ is a free abelian group with the discrete topology. So dually, all that is required of your $H$ is that it is topologically isomorphic to a product of copies of $mathbbT$, and we can conclude that $Gcong Htimes G/H$.)
This is not possible. By taking Pontryagin duals of everything, this is equivalent to asking for a locally compact abelian group $A$ with a closed subgroup $BcongmathbbR$ such that $A/BcongmathbbZ$ with the discrete topology, but $Anotcong mathbbRtimesmathbbZ$. Since $A/B$ is discrete, $A$ is topologically just the disjoint union of the cosets of $B$. Picking any element $ain A$ whose image in $A/B$ is a generator, then every element of $A$ is in the same connected component as a unique multiple of $a$ so we get a topological isomorphism $BtimesmathbbZto A$ by mapping $(b,n)$ to $b+na$.
(Note that in fact this argument does not require that $BcongmathbbR$, and requires only that $A/B$ is a free abelian group with the discrete topology. So dually, all that is required of your $H$ is that it is topologically isomorphic to a product of copies of $mathbbT$, and we can conclude that $Gcong Htimes G/H$.)
answered Aug 26 at 21:09
Eric Wofsey
165k12193307
165k12193307
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add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
If $fcolonmathbbTto G$ is an embedding of LCA groups, then Pontryagin duality gives an epimorphism $f^*colon G^*tomathbbT^*=mathbbZ$. Since the codomain is discrete and the image of $f^*$ is dense, $f^*$ is surjective. Therefore there exists $gcolonmathbbZto G^*$ such that $f^*circ g$ is the identity.
Apply Pontryagin duality again to get $hcolon GtomathbbT$ such that $hcirc f$ is the identity. Hence $G$ is topologically isomorphic to $mathbbTtimes G/mathbbT$, by abstract nonsense.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
If $fcolonmathbbTto G$ is an embedding of LCA groups, then Pontryagin duality gives an epimorphism $f^*colon G^*tomathbbT^*=mathbbZ$. Since the codomain is discrete and the image of $f^*$ is dense, $f^*$ is surjective. Therefore there exists $gcolonmathbbZto G^*$ such that $f^*circ g$ is the identity.
Apply Pontryagin duality again to get $hcolon GtomathbbT$ such that $hcirc f$ is the identity. Hence $G$ is topologically isomorphic to $mathbbTtimes G/mathbbT$, by abstract nonsense.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
If $fcolonmathbbTto G$ is an embedding of LCA groups, then Pontryagin duality gives an epimorphism $f^*colon G^*tomathbbT^*=mathbbZ$. Since the codomain is discrete and the image of $f^*$ is dense, $f^*$ is surjective. Therefore there exists $gcolonmathbbZto G^*$ such that $f^*circ g$ is the identity.
Apply Pontryagin duality again to get $hcolon GtomathbbT$ such that $hcirc f$ is the identity. Hence $G$ is topologically isomorphic to $mathbbTtimes G/mathbbT$, by abstract nonsense.
If $fcolonmathbbTto G$ is an embedding of LCA groups, then Pontryagin duality gives an epimorphism $f^*colon G^*tomathbbT^*=mathbbZ$. Since the codomain is discrete and the image of $f^*$ is dense, $f^*$ is surjective. Therefore there exists $gcolonmathbbZto G^*$ such that $f^*circ g$ is the identity.
Apply Pontryagin duality again to get $hcolon GtomathbbT$ such that $hcirc f$ is the identity. Hence $G$ is topologically isomorphic to $mathbbTtimes G/mathbbT$, by abstract nonsense.
answered Aug 26 at 21:28
egreg
166k1180187
166k1180187
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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1
If $mathbbT$ is a closed subgroup of $G$, then we get a continuous surjection $G^*tomathbbZ$ (using Pontryagin duality), which splits.
â egreg
Aug 26 at 21:08
@egreg I know it splits if $G$ is compact, are you sure this holds in the locally compact case as well?
â Yanko
Aug 26 at 21:08
1
Pontryagin duality sends monomorphisms into epimorphisms; an epimorphism of LCA groups with discrete codomain is surjective (because the image must be dense). Any homomorphism from $mathbbZ$ into a LCA group is obviously continuous. Apply Pontryagin duality again.
â egreg
Aug 26 at 21:15