Properties of non-negative integrable functions with 1st, 2nd and 3rd powers having same $L^1$-norm

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Let $fin L^1([0.1])$, non-negative such that $f, f^2$ and $f^3$ have same $L^1([0,1])$ norm. Then, I want to show for a.e. $x$, either $f=0$ or $f=1$.



If $fin[0,1]$, then just by comparing directly 1st and 2nd powers, we have $f=0$ or $1$ a.e. But if $f>1$, I have no idea on continuing and how to use 3rd power.










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    up vote
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    favorite












    Let $fin L^1([0.1])$, non-negative such that $f, f^2$ and $f^3$ have same $L^1([0,1])$ norm. Then, I want to show for a.e. $x$, either $f=0$ or $f=1$.



    If $fin[0,1]$, then just by comparing directly 1st and 2nd powers, we have $f=0$ or $1$ a.e. But if $f>1$, I have no idea on continuing and how to use 3rd power.










    share|cite|improve this question























      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite











      Let $fin L^1([0.1])$, non-negative such that $f, f^2$ and $f^3$ have same $L^1([0,1])$ norm. Then, I want to show for a.e. $x$, either $f=0$ or $f=1$.



      If $fin[0,1]$, then just by comparing directly 1st and 2nd powers, we have $f=0$ or $1$ a.e. But if $f>1$, I have no idea on continuing and how to use 3rd power.










      share|cite|improve this question













      Let $fin L^1([0.1])$, non-negative such that $f, f^2$ and $f^3$ have same $L^1([0,1])$ norm. Then, I want to show for a.e. $x$, either $f=0$ or $f=1$.



      If $fin[0,1]$, then just by comparing directly 1st and 2nd powers, we have $f=0$ or $1$ a.e. But if $f>1$, I have no idea on continuing and how to use 3rd power.







      real-analysis lebesgue-integral lebesgue-measure






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      asked Sep 5 at 11:57









      Leonardo

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          You have $$ int f^3 - 2f^2 + f = 0$$
          which can be arranged to find $$int f (f-1)^2 = 0.$$
          Since $f(f-1)^2 ge 0$ it follows that $f(f-1)^2 = 0$ almost everywhere and thus $f=0$ or $1$ almost everywhere.






          share|cite|improve this answer



























            up vote
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            The existing answer, pointing out that $int f(f-1)^2=0$, is very cool and very clever. But it depends strongly on the fact that the exponents are $1$, $2$, and $3$; in particular it doesn't say anything about the obvious generalization of the result in question. Here's a different argument that's maybe less of a "trick", and which in any case does generalize:



            If we say $g=f^1/2$ and $h=f^3/2$ then we have $$int gh=||g||_2||h||_2.$$
            Hence $h$ must be a scalar multiple of $g$, which implies that $f=cchi_A$, and now of course it follows that $c=1$.



            There's a generalization that "must" be true if the original result is true; this argument does suffice for the generalization:





            If $fge0$, $1<alpha<beta$ and $int f=int f^alpha=int f^beta$ then $f=chi_A$.





            Sketch: Solving a few equations shows that there exist $a,b>0$ and $pin(1,infty)$ such that $a+b=alpha$, $ap=1$ and $bp'=beta$. Now if $g=f^a$ and $h=f^b$ we have $$int gh=||g||_p||h||_p'.$$The condition for equality in Holder's inequality shows that...






            share|cite|improve this answer






















            • Thank you for giving further insight for generalisation!
              – Leonardo
              Sep 5 at 14:52










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            2 Answers
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            active

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            2 Answers
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            up vote
            5
            down vote













            You have $$ int f^3 - 2f^2 + f = 0$$
            which can be arranged to find $$int f (f-1)^2 = 0.$$
            Since $f(f-1)^2 ge 0$ it follows that $f(f-1)^2 = 0$ almost everywhere and thus $f=0$ or $1$ almost everywhere.






            share|cite|improve this answer
























              up vote
              5
              down vote













              You have $$ int f^3 - 2f^2 + f = 0$$
              which can be arranged to find $$int f (f-1)^2 = 0.$$
              Since $f(f-1)^2 ge 0$ it follows that $f(f-1)^2 = 0$ almost everywhere and thus $f=0$ or $1$ almost everywhere.






              share|cite|improve this answer






















                up vote
                5
                down vote










                up vote
                5
                down vote









                You have $$ int f^3 - 2f^2 + f = 0$$
                which can be arranged to find $$int f (f-1)^2 = 0.$$
                Since $f(f-1)^2 ge 0$ it follows that $f(f-1)^2 = 0$ almost everywhere and thus $f=0$ or $1$ almost everywhere.






                share|cite|improve this answer












                You have $$ int f^3 - 2f^2 + f = 0$$
                which can be arranged to find $$int f (f-1)^2 = 0.$$
                Since $f(f-1)^2 ge 0$ it follows that $f(f-1)^2 = 0$ almost everywhere and thus $f=0$ or $1$ almost everywhere.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Sep 5 at 12:55









                Umberto P.

                35.4k12860




                35.4k12860




















                    up vote
                    3
                    down vote













                    The existing answer, pointing out that $int f(f-1)^2=0$, is very cool and very clever. But it depends strongly on the fact that the exponents are $1$, $2$, and $3$; in particular it doesn't say anything about the obvious generalization of the result in question. Here's a different argument that's maybe less of a "trick", and which in any case does generalize:



                    If we say $g=f^1/2$ and $h=f^3/2$ then we have $$int gh=||g||_2||h||_2.$$
                    Hence $h$ must be a scalar multiple of $g$, which implies that $f=cchi_A$, and now of course it follows that $c=1$.



                    There's a generalization that "must" be true if the original result is true; this argument does suffice for the generalization:





                    If $fge0$, $1<alpha<beta$ and $int f=int f^alpha=int f^beta$ then $f=chi_A$.





                    Sketch: Solving a few equations shows that there exist $a,b>0$ and $pin(1,infty)$ such that $a+b=alpha$, $ap=1$ and $bp'=beta$. Now if $g=f^a$ and $h=f^b$ we have $$int gh=||g||_p||h||_p'.$$The condition for equality in Holder's inequality shows that...






                    share|cite|improve this answer






















                    • Thank you for giving further insight for generalisation!
                      – Leonardo
                      Sep 5 at 14:52














                    up vote
                    3
                    down vote













                    The existing answer, pointing out that $int f(f-1)^2=0$, is very cool and very clever. But it depends strongly on the fact that the exponents are $1$, $2$, and $3$; in particular it doesn't say anything about the obvious generalization of the result in question. Here's a different argument that's maybe less of a "trick", and which in any case does generalize:



                    If we say $g=f^1/2$ and $h=f^3/2$ then we have $$int gh=||g||_2||h||_2.$$
                    Hence $h$ must be a scalar multiple of $g$, which implies that $f=cchi_A$, and now of course it follows that $c=1$.



                    There's a generalization that "must" be true if the original result is true; this argument does suffice for the generalization:





                    If $fge0$, $1<alpha<beta$ and $int f=int f^alpha=int f^beta$ then $f=chi_A$.





                    Sketch: Solving a few equations shows that there exist $a,b>0$ and $pin(1,infty)$ such that $a+b=alpha$, $ap=1$ and $bp'=beta$. Now if $g=f^a$ and $h=f^b$ we have $$int gh=||g||_p||h||_p'.$$The condition for equality in Holder's inequality shows that...






                    share|cite|improve this answer






















                    • Thank you for giving further insight for generalisation!
                      – Leonardo
                      Sep 5 at 14:52












                    up vote
                    3
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    3
                    down vote









                    The existing answer, pointing out that $int f(f-1)^2=0$, is very cool and very clever. But it depends strongly on the fact that the exponents are $1$, $2$, and $3$; in particular it doesn't say anything about the obvious generalization of the result in question. Here's a different argument that's maybe less of a "trick", and which in any case does generalize:



                    If we say $g=f^1/2$ and $h=f^3/2$ then we have $$int gh=||g||_2||h||_2.$$
                    Hence $h$ must be a scalar multiple of $g$, which implies that $f=cchi_A$, and now of course it follows that $c=1$.



                    There's a generalization that "must" be true if the original result is true; this argument does suffice for the generalization:





                    If $fge0$, $1<alpha<beta$ and $int f=int f^alpha=int f^beta$ then $f=chi_A$.





                    Sketch: Solving a few equations shows that there exist $a,b>0$ and $pin(1,infty)$ such that $a+b=alpha$, $ap=1$ and $bp'=beta$. Now if $g=f^a$ and $h=f^b$ we have $$int gh=||g||_p||h||_p'.$$The condition for equality in Holder's inequality shows that...






                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    The existing answer, pointing out that $int f(f-1)^2=0$, is very cool and very clever. But it depends strongly on the fact that the exponents are $1$, $2$, and $3$; in particular it doesn't say anything about the obvious generalization of the result in question. Here's a different argument that's maybe less of a "trick", and which in any case does generalize:



                    If we say $g=f^1/2$ and $h=f^3/2$ then we have $$int gh=||g||_2||h||_2.$$
                    Hence $h$ must be a scalar multiple of $g$, which implies that $f=cchi_A$, and now of course it follows that $c=1$.



                    There's a generalization that "must" be true if the original result is true; this argument does suffice for the generalization:





                    If $fge0$, $1<alpha<beta$ and $int f=int f^alpha=int f^beta$ then $f=chi_A$.





                    Sketch: Solving a few equations shows that there exist $a,b>0$ and $pin(1,infty)$ such that $a+b=alpha$, $ap=1$ and $bp'=beta$. Now if $g=f^a$ and $h=f^b$ we have $$int gh=||g||_p||h||_p'.$$The condition for equality in Holder's inequality shows that...







                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer








                    edited Sep 5 at 14:57

























                    answered Sep 5 at 14:28









                    David C. Ullrich

                    55.8k43787




                    55.8k43787











                    • Thank you for giving further insight for generalisation!
                      – Leonardo
                      Sep 5 at 14:52
















                    • Thank you for giving further insight for generalisation!
                      – Leonardo
                      Sep 5 at 14:52















                    Thank you for giving further insight for generalisation!
                    – Leonardo
                    Sep 5 at 14:52




                    Thank you for giving further insight for generalisation!
                    – Leonardo
                    Sep 5 at 14:52

















                     

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