Does every point in a metric space have another point a rational distance away? [on hold]









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Is the following statement true or false?




Let $(X,d)$ be a metric space. Then for every $x in X$, there exists $y in X$ such that $d(x, y)$ is a non-zero rational number.




I'm not able to find a counter example.










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put on hold as off-topic by TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson 16 hours ago


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.








  • 3




    What have you tried for finding counterexamples?
    – Dark Malthorp
    yesterday







  • 9




    Think about the discrete metric, but choose an irrational number instead of $1$.
    – Richard
    yesterday










  • @Richard good logics
    – jasmine
    yesterday






  • 1




    If I'm not completely mistaken, any counterexample has to be a totally disconnected space. (For any $a,bin X$, we can split $X$ into the open sets $xin X: d(x,a) < r$ and $xin X: d(x,a) > r$ for some rational $r < d(a,b)$) Depending on what you are interested in, such spaces aren't really "reasonable" (at least that's the case for me), so that might be why you missed the counterexamples.
    – mlk
    17 hours ago















up vote
10
down vote

favorite












Is the following statement true or false?




Let $(X,d)$ be a metric space. Then for every $x in X$, there exists $y in X$ such that $d(x, y)$ is a non-zero rational number.




I'm not able to find a counter example.










share|cite|improve this question















put on hold as off-topic by TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson 16 hours ago


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.








  • 3




    What have you tried for finding counterexamples?
    – Dark Malthorp
    yesterday







  • 9




    Think about the discrete metric, but choose an irrational number instead of $1$.
    – Richard
    yesterday










  • @Richard good logics
    – jasmine
    yesterday






  • 1




    If I'm not completely mistaken, any counterexample has to be a totally disconnected space. (For any $a,bin X$, we can split $X$ into the open sets $xin X: d(x,a) < r$ and $xin X: d(x,a) > r$ for some rational $r < d(a,b)$) Depending on what you are interested in, such spaces aren't really "reasonable" (at least that's the case for me), so that might be why you missed the counterexamples.
    – mlk
    17 hours ago













up vote
10
down vote

favorite









up vote
10
down vote

favorite











Is the following statement true or false?




Let $(X,d)$ be a metric space. Then for every $x in X$, there exists $y in X$ such that $d(x, y)$ is a non-zero rational number.




I'm not able to find a counter example.










share|cite|improve this question















Is the following statement true or false?




Let $(X,d)$ be a metric space. Then for every $x in X$, there exists $y in X$ such that $d(x, y)$ is a non-zero rational number.




I'm not able to find a counter example.







general-topology metric-spaces






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share|cite|improve this question













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share|cite|improve this question








edited yesterday









Nate Eldredge

61.3k579166




61.3k579166










asked yesterday









jasmine

1,314315




1,314315




put on hold as off-topic by TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson 16 hours ago


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.




put on hold as off-topic by TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson 16 hours ago


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.







  • 3




    What have you tried for finding counterexamples?
    – Dark Malthorp
    yesterday







  • 9




    Think about the discrete metric, but choose an irrational number instead of $1$.
    – Richard
    yesterday










  • @Richard good logics
    – jasmine
    yesterday






  • 1




    If I'm not completely mistaken, any counterexample has to be a totally disconnected space. (For any $a,bin X$, we can split $X$ into the open sets $xin X: d(x,a) < r$ and $xin X: d(x,a) > r$ for some rational $r < d(a,b)$) Depending on what you are interested in, such spaces aren't really "reasonable" (at least that's the case for me), so that might be why you missed the counterexamples.
    – mlk
    17 hours ago













  • 3




    What have you tried for finding counterexamples?
    – Dark Malthorp
    yesterday







  • 9




    Think about the discrete metric, but choose an irrational number instead of $1$.
    – Richard
    yesterday










  • @Richard good logics
    – jasmine
    yesterday






  • 1




    If I'm not completely mistaken, any counterexample has to be a totally disconnected space. (For any $a,bin X$, we can split $X$ into the open sets $xin X: d(x,a) < r$ and $xin X: d(x,a) > r$ for some rational $r < d(a,b)$) Depending on what you are interested in, such spaces aren't really "reasonable" (at least that's the case for me), so that might be why you missed the counterexamples.
    – mlk
    17 hours ago








3




3




What have you tried for finding counterexamples?
– Dark Malthorp
yesterday





What have you tried for finding counterexamples?
– Dark Malthorp
yesterday





9




9




Think about the discrete metric, but choose an irrational number instead of $1$.
– Richard
yesterday




Think about the discrete metric, but choose an irrational number instead of $1$.
– Richard
yesterday












@Richard good logics
– jasmine
yesterday




@Richard good logics
– jasmine
yesterday




1




1




If I'm not completely mistaken, any counterexample has to be a totally disconnected space. (For any $a,bin X$, we can split $X$ into the open sets $xin X: d(x,a) < r$ and $xin X: d(x,a) > r$ for some rational $r < d(a,b)$) Depending on what you are interested in, such spaces aren't really "reasonable" (at least that's the case for me), so that might be why you missed the counterexamples.
– mlk
17 hours ago





If I'm not completely mistaken, any counterexample has to be a totally disconnected space. (For any $a,bin X$, we can split $X$ into the open sets $xin X: d(x,a) < r$ and $xin X: d(x,a) > r$ for some rational $r < d(a,b)$) Depending on what you are interested in, such spaces aren't really "reasonable" (at least that's the case for me), so that might be why you missed the counterexamples.
– mlk
17 hours ago











4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
20
down vote



accepted










False. Take $X=mathbbR$ and $d(x,y)=pi$ for $xneq y$.






share|cite|improve this answer
















  • 7




    Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
    – ConMan
    yesterday






  • 2




    @ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
    – Ister
    19 hours ago

















up vote
19
down vote













Here are some examples that are subsets of $mathbbR$ (or $mathbbR^n$), which are counterexamples if $d$ is taken to be the Euclidean metric.



  • The two-point set $0, sqrt2$.


  • Take a Vitali set in $mathbbR$. By construction, the distance between any two points is irrational.


  • Take any continuous probability distribution on $mathbbR^n$ (e.g. uniform in a region, Gaussian, etc), and choose a finite or countable number of points $X_1, X_2, dots$ independently according to this distribution. With probability one, the resulting set has no two points that are a rational (Euclidean) distance apart. (For any given pair $X_i, X_j$, there is probability zero that $|X_i - X_j|$ is rational. There are a countable number of pairs, so by countable additivity, there is probability zero that there exists a pair a rational distance apart.)






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • Very clever example.
    – Matt Samuel
    yesterday

















up vote
6
down vote













Sometimes extreme cases are a good source of counterexamples. Consider the metric space on a set of one element, $(star, d)$, with $d(star, star)=0$. Clearly for $x=star$, there is no $y$ such that $d(star, y)$ is non zero.






share|cite|improve this answer



























    up vote
    -3
    down vote













    The statement in the text of the question is almost true (would be true without the word "nonzero"). For every x, there exists a point y, namely the point y=x, such that y is at a rational distance (zero) from x. The statement in the title of the question ("another point") is false, however, as the word "another" implies that y must differ from x and as the other answers already show. So you have to read this sort of question very carefully to answer it correctly.






    share|cite|improve this answer










    New contributor




    David Eppstein is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.













    • 1




      "... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
      – Robert Howard
      yesterday

















    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes








    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    20
    down vote



    accepted










    False. Take $X=mathbbR$ and $d(x,y)=pi$ for $xneq y$.






    share|cite|improve this answer
















    • 7




      Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
      – ConMan
      yesterday






    • 2




      @ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
      – Ister
      19 hours ago














    up vote
    20
    down vote



    accepted










    False. Take $X=mathbbR$ and $d(x,y)=pi$ for $xneq y$.






    share|cite|improve this answer
















    • 7




      Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
      – ConMan
      yesterday






    • 2




      @ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
      – Ister
      19 hours ago












    up vote
    20
    down vote



    accepted







    up vote
    20
    down vote



    accepted






    False. Take $X=mathbbR$ and $d(x,y)=pi$ for $xneq y$.






    share|cite|improve this answer












    False. Take $X=mathbbR$ and $d(x,y)=pi$ for $xneq y$.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered yesterday









    Noah Riggenbach

    81727




    81727







    • 7




      Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
      – ConMan
      yesterday






    • 2




      @ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
      – Ister
      19 hours ago












    • 7




      Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
      – ConMan
      yesterday






    • 2




      @ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
      – Ister
      19 hours ago







    7




    7




    Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
    – ConMan
    yesterday




    Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
    – ConMan
    yesterday




    2




    2




    @ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
    – Ister
    19 hours ago




    @ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
    – Ister
    19 hours ago










    up vote
    19
    down vote













    Here are some examples that are subsets of $mathbbR$ (or $mathbbR^n$), which are counterexamples if $d$ is taken to be the Euclidean metric.



    • The two-point set $0, sqrt2$.


    • Take a Vitali set in $mathbbR$. By construction, the distance between any two points is irrational.


    • Take any continuous probability distribution on $mathbbR^n$ (e.g. uniform in a region, Gaussian, etc), and choose a finite or countable number of points $X_1, X_2, dots$ independently according to this distribution. With probability one, the resulting set has no two points that are a rational (Euclidean) distance apart. (For any given pair $X_i, X_j$, there is probability zero that $|X_i - X_j|$ is rational. There are a countable number of pairs, so by countable additivity, there is probability zero that there exists a pair a rational distance apart.)






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • Very clever example.
      – Matt Samuel
      yesterday














    up vote
    19
    down vote













    Here are some examples that are subsets of $mathbbR$ (or $mathbbR^n$), which are counterexamples if $d$ is taken to be the Euclidean metric.



    • The two-point set $0, sqrt2$.


    • Take a Vitali set in $mathbbR$. By construction, the distance between any two points is irrational.


    • Take any continuous probability distribution on $mathbbR^n$ (e.g. uniform in a region, Gaussian, etc), and choose a finite or countable number of points $X_1, X_2, dots$ independently according to this distribution. With probability one, the resulting set has no two points that are a rational (Euclidean) distance apart. (For any given pair $X_i, X_j$, there is probability zero that $|X_i - X_j|$ is rational. There are a countable number of pairs, so by countable additivity, there is probability zero that there exists a pair a rational distance apart.)






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • Very clever example.
      – Matt Samuel
      yesterday












    up vote
    19
    down vote










    up vote
    19
    down vote









    Here are some examples that are subsets of $mathbbR$ (or $mathbbR^n$), which are counterexamples if $d$ is taken to be the Euclidean metric.



    • The two-point set $0, sqrt2$.


    • Take a Vitali set in $mathbbR$. By construction, the distance between any two points is irrational.


    • Take any continuous probability distribution on $mathbbR^n$ (e.g. uniform in a region, Gaussian, etc), and choose a finite or countable number of points $X_1, X_2, dots$ independently according to this distribution. With probability one, the resulting set has no two points that are a rational (Euclidean) distance apart. (For any given pair $X_i, X_j$, there is probability zero that $|X_i - X_j|$ is rational. There are a countable number of pairs, so by countable additivity, there is probability zero that there exists a pair a rational distance apart.)






    share|cite|improve this answer














    Here are some examples that are subsets of $mathbbR$ (or $mathbbR^n$), which are counterexamples if $d$ is taken to be the Euclidean metric.



    • The two-point set $0, sqrt2$.


    • Take a Vitali set in $mathbbR$. By construction, the distance between any two points is irrational.


    • Take any continuous probability distribution on $mathbbR^n$ (e.g. uniform in a region, Gaussian, etc), and choose a finite or countable number of points $X_1, X_2, dots$ independently according to this distribution. With probability one, the resulting set has no two points that are a rational (Euclidean) distance apart. (For any given pair $X_i, X_j$, there is probability zero that $|X_i - X_j|$ is rational. There are a countable number of pairs, so by countable additivity, there is probability zero that there exists a pair a rational distance apart.)







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited yesterday

























    answered yesterday









    Nate Eldredge

    61.3k579166




    61.3k579166











    • Very clever example.
      – Matt Samuel
      yesterday
















    • Very clever example.
      – Matt Samuel
      yesterday















    Very clever example.
    – Matt Samuel
    yesterday




    Very clever example.
    – Matt Samuel
    yesterday










    up vote
    6
    down vote













    Sometimes extreme cases are a good source of counterexamples. Consider the metric space on a set of one element, $(star, d)$, with $d(star, star)=0$. Clearly for $x=star$, there is no $y$ such that $d(star, y)$ is non zero.






    share|cite|improve this answer
























      up vote
      6
      down vote













      Sometimes extreme cases are a good source of counterexamples. Consider the metric space on a set of one element, $(star, d)$, with $d(star, star)=0$. Clearly for $x=star$, there is no $y$ such that $d(star, y)$ is non zero.






      share|cite|improve this answer






















        up vote
        6
        down vote










        up vote
        6
        down vote









        Sometimes extreme cases are a good source of counterexamples. Consider the metric space on a set of one element, $(star, d)$, with $d(star, star)=0$. Clearly for $x=star$, there is no $y$ such that $d(star, y)$ is non zero.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        Sometimes extreme cases are a good source of counterexamples. Consider the metric space on a set of one element, $(star, d)$, with $d(star, star)=0$. Clearly for $x=star$, there is no $y$ such that $d(star, y)$ is non zero.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered yesterday









        Mjiig

        38727




        38727




















            up vote
            -3
            down vote













            The statement in the text of the question is almost true (would be true without the word "nonzero"). For every x, there exists a point y, namely the point y=x, such that y is at a rational distance (zero) from x. The statement in the title of the question ("another point") is false, however, as the word "another" implies that y must differ from x and as the other answers already show. So you have to read this sort of question very carefully to answer it correctly.






            share|cite|improve this answer










            New contributor




            David Eppstein is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.













            • 1




              "... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
              – Robert Howard
              yesterday














            up vote
            -3
            down vote













            The statement in the text of the question is almost true (would be true without the word "nonzero"). For every x, there exists a point y, namely the point y=x, such that y is at a rational distance (zero) from x. The statement in the title of the question ("another point") is false, however, as the word "another" implies that y must differ from x and as the other answers already show. So you have to read this sort of question very carefully to answer it correctly.






            share|cite|improve this answer










            New contributor




            David Eppstein is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.













            • 1




              "... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
              – Robert Howard
              yesterday












            up vote
            -3
            down vote










            up vote
            -3
            down vote









            The statement in the text of the question is almost true (would be true without the word "nonzero"). For every x, there exists a point y, namely the point y=x, such that y is at a rational distance (zero) from x. The statement in the title of the question ("another point") is false, however, as the word "another" implies that y must differ from x and as the other answers already show. So you have to read this sort of question very carefully to answer it correctly.






            share|cite|improve this answer










            New contributor




            David Eppstein is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            The statement in the text of the question is almost true (would be true without the word "nonzero"). For every x, there exists a point y, namely the point y=x, such that y is at a rational distance (zero) from x. The statement in the title of the question ("another point") is false, however, as the word "another" implies that y must differ from x and as the other answers already show. So you have to read this sort of question very carefully to answer it correctly.







            share|cite|improve this answer










            New contributor




            David Eppstein is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited yesterday









            David Eppstein

            1032




            1032






            New contributor




            David Eppstein is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            answered yesterday









            David Eppstein

            1




            1




            New contributor




            David Eppstein is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.





            New contributor





            David Eppstein is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            David Eppstein is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.







            • 1




              "... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
              – Robert Howard
              yesterday












            • 1




              "... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
              – Robert Howard
              yesterday







            1




            1




            "... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
            – Robert Howard
            yesterday




            "... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
            – Robert Howard
            yesterday



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