Does every point in a metric space have another point a rational distance away? [on hold]
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10
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Is the following statement true or false?
Let $(X,d)$ be a metric space. Then for every $x in X$, there exists $y in X$ such that $d(x, y)$ is a non-zero rational number.
I'm not able to find a counter example.
general-topology metric-spaces
put on hold as off-topic by TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson 16 hours ago
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
favorite
Is the following statement true or false?
Let $(X,d)$ be a metric space. Then for every $x in X$, there exists $y in X$ such that $d(x, y)$ is a non-zero rational number.
I'm not able to find a counter example.
general-topology metric-spaces
put on hold as off-topic by TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson 16 hours ago
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson
3
What have you tried for finding counterexamples?
– Dark Malthorp
yesterday
9
Think about the discrete metric, but choose an irrational number instead of $1$.
– Richard
yesterday
@Richard good logics
– jasmine
yesterday
1
If I'm not completely mistaken, any counterexample has to be a totally disconnected space. (For any $a,bin X$, we can split $X$ into the open sets $xin X: d(x,a) < r$ and $xin X: d(x,a) > r$ for some rational $r < d(a,b)$) Depending on what you are interested in, such spaces aren't really "reasonable" (at least that's the case for me), so that might be why you missed the counterexamples.
– mlk
17 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
favorite
up vote
10
down vote
favorite
Is the following statement true or false?
Let $(X,d)$ be a metric space. Then for every $x in X$, there exists $y in X$ such that $d(x, y)$ is a non-zero rational number.
I'm not able to find a counter example.
general-topology metric-spaces
Is the following statement true or false?
Let $(X,d)$ be a metric space. Then for every $x in X$, there exists $y in X$ such that $d(x, y)$ is a non-zero rational number.
I'm not able to find a counter example.
general-topology metric-spaces
general-topology metric-spaces
edited yesterday
Nate Eldredge
61.3k579166
61.3k579166
asked yesterday
jasmine
1,314315
1,314315
put on hold as off-topic by TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson 16 hours ago
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson
put on hold as off-topic by TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson 16 hours ago
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – TheSimpliFire, user21820, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Xander Henderson
3
What have you tried for finding counterexamples?
– Dark Malthorp
yesterday
9
Think about the discrete metric, but choose an irrational number instead of $1$.
– Richard
yesterday
@Richard good logics
– jasmine
yesterday
1
If I'm not completely mistaken, any counterexample has to be a totally disconnected space. (For any $a,bin X$, we can split $X$ into the open sets $xin X: d(x,a) < r$ and $xin X: d(x,a) > r$ for some rational $r < d(a,b)$) Depending on what you are interested in, such spaces aren't really "reasonable" (at least that's the case for me), so that might be why you missed the counterexamples.
– mlk
17 hours ago
add a comment |
3
What have you tried for finding counterexamples?
– Dark Malthorp
yesterday
9
Think about the discrete metric, but choose an irrational number instead of $1$.
– Richard
yesterday
@Richard good logics
– jasmine
yesterday
1
If I'm not completely mistaken, any counterexample has to be a totally disconnected space. (For any $a,bin X$, we can split $X$ into the open sets $xin X: d(x,a) < r$ and $xin X: d(x,a) > r$ for some rational $r < d(a,b)$) Depending on what you are interested in, such spaces aren't really "reasonable" (at least that's the case for me), so that might be why you missed the counterexamples.
– mlk
17 hours ago
3
3
What have you tried for finding counterexamples?
– Dark Malthorp
yesterday
What have you tried for finding counterexamples?
– Dark Malthorp
yesterday
9
9
Think about the discrete metric, but choose an irrational number instead of $1$.
– Richard
yesterday
Think about the discrete metric, but choose an irrational number instead of $1$.
– Richard
yesterday
@Richard good logics
– jasmine
yesterday
@Richard good logics
– jasmine
yesterday
1
1
If I'm not completely mistaken, any counterexample has to be a totally disconnected space. (For any $a,bin X$, we can split $X$ into the open sets $xin X: d(x,a) < r$ and $xin X: d(x,a) > r$ for some rational $r < d(a,b)$) Depending on what you are interested in, such spaces aren't really "reasonable" (at least that's the case for me), so that might be why you missed the counterexamples.
– mlk
17 hours ago
If I'm not completely mistaken, any counterexample has to be a totally disconnected space. (For any $a,bin X$, we can split $X$ into the open sets $xin X: d(x,a) < r$ and $xin X: d(x,a) > r$ for some rational $r < d(a,b)$) Depending on what you are interested in, such spaces aren't really "reasonable" (at least that's the case for me), so that might be why you missed the counterexamples.
– mlk
17 hours ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
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up vote
20
down vote
accepted
False. Take $X=mathbbR$ and $d(x,y)=pi$ for $xneq y$.
7
Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
– ConMan
yesterday
2
@ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
– Ister
19 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
19
down vote
Here are some examples that are subsets of $mathbbR$ (or $mathbbR^n$), which are counterexamples if $d$ is taken to be the Euclidean metric.
The two-point set $0, sqrt2$.
Take a Vitali set in $mathbbR$. By construction, the distance between any two points is irrational.
Take any continuous probability distribution on $mathbbR^n$ (e.g. uniform in a region, Gaussian, etc), and choose a finite or countable number of points $X_1, X_2, dots$ independently according to this distribution. With probability one, the resulting set has no two points that are a rational (Euclidean) distance apart. (For any given pair $X_i, X_j$, there is probability zero that $|X_i - X_j|$ is rational. There are a countable number of pairs, so by countable additivity, there is probability zero that there exists a pair a rational distance apart.)
Very clever example.
– Matt Samuel
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
Sometimes extreme cases are a good source of counterexamples. Consider the metric space on a set of one element, $(star, d)$, with $d(star, star)=0$. Clearly for $x=star$, there is no $y$ such that $d(star, y)$ is non zero.
add a comment |
up vote
-3
down vote
The statement in the text of the question is almost true (would be true without the word "nonzero"). For every x, there exists a point y, namely the point y=x, such that y is at a rational distance (zero) from x. The statement in the title of the question ("another point") is false, however, as the word "another" implies that y must differ from x and as the other answers already show. So you have to read this sort of question very carefully to answer it correctly.
New contributor
1
"... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
– Robert Howard
yesterday
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
20
down vote
accepted
False. Take $X=mathbbR$ and $d(x,y)=pi$ for $xneq y$.
7
Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
– ConMan
yesterday
2
@ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
– Ister
19 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
20
down vote
accepted
False. Take $X=mathbbR$ and $d(x,y)=pi$ for $xneq y$.
7
Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
– ConMan
yesterday
2
@ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
– Ister
19 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
20
down vote
accepted
up vote
20
down vote
accepted
False. Take $X=mathbbR$ and $d(x,y)=pi$ for $xneq y$.
False. Take $X=mathbbR$ and $d(x,y)=pi$ for $xneq y$.
answered yesterday
Noah Riggenbach
81727
81727
7
Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
– ConMan
yesterday
2
@ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
– Ister
19 hours ago
add a comment |
7
Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
– ConMan
yesterday
2
@ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
– Ister
19 hours ago
7
7
Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
– ConMan
yesterday
Alternatively, take $X = 0$ with trivial metric.
– ConMan
yesterday
2
2
@ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
– Ister
19 hours ago
@ConMan while your example is as trivial as the Noah's one it is at the same time entirely different and should be a separate answer IMO.
– Ister
19 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
19
down vote
Here are some examples that are subsets of $mathbbR$ (or $mathbbR^n$), which are counterexamples if $d$ is taken to be the Euclidean metric.
The two-point set $0, sqrt2$.
Take a Vitali set in $mathbbR$. By construction, the distance between any two points is irrational.
Take any continuous probability distribution on $mathbbR^n$ (e.g. uniform in a region, Gaussian, etc), and choose a finite or countable number of points $X_1, X_2, dots$ independently according to this distribution. With probability one, the resulting set has no two points that are a rational (Euclidean) distance apart. (For any given pair $X_i, X_j$, there is probability zero that $|X_i - X_j|$ is rational. There are a countable number of pairs, so by countable additivity, there is probability zero that there exists a pair a rational distance apart.)
Very clever example.
– Matt Samuel
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
19
down vote
Here are some examples that are subsets of $mathbbR$ (or $mathbbR^n$), which are counterexamples if $d$ is taken to be the Euclidean metric.
The two-point set $0, sqrt2$.
Take a Vitali set in $mathbbR$. By construction, the distance between any two points is irrational.
Take any continuous probability distribution on $mathbbR^n$ (e.g. uniform in a region, Gaussian, etc), and choose a finite or countable number of points $X_1, X_2, dots$ independently according to this distribution. With probability one, the resulting set has no two points that are a rational (Euclidean) distance apart. (For any given pair $X_i, X_j$, there is probability zero that $|X_i - X_j|$ is rational. There are a countable number of pairs, so by countable additivity, there is probability zero that there exists a pair a rational distance apart.)
Very clever example.
– Matt Samuel
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
19
down vote
up vote
19
down vote
Here are some examples that are subsets of $mathbbR$ (or $mathbbR^n$), which are counterexamples if $d$ is taken to be the Euclidean metric.
The two-point set $0, sqrt2$.
Take a Vitali set in $mathbbR$. By construction, the distance between any two points is irrational.
Take any continuous probability distribution on $mathbbR^n$ (e.g. uniform in a region, Gaussian, etc), and choose a finite or countable number of points $X_1, X_2, dots$ independently according to this distribution. With probability one, the resulting set has no two points that are a rational (Euclidean) distance apart. (For any given pair $X_i, X_j$, there is probability zero that $|X_i - X_j|$ is rational. There are a countable number of pairs, so by countable additivity, there is probability zero that there exists a pair a rational distance apart.)
Here are some examples that are subsets of $mathbbR$ (or $mathbbR^n$), which are counterexamples if $d$ is taken to be the Euclidean metric.
The two-point set $0, sqrt2$.
Take a Vitali set in $mathbbR$. By construction, the distance between any two points is irrational.
Take any continuous probability distribution on $mathbbR^n$ (e.g. uniform in a region, Gaussian, etc), and choose a finite or countable number of points $X_1, X_2, dots$ independently according to this distribution. With probability one, the resulting set has no two points that are a rational (Euclidean) distance apart. (For any given pair $X_i, X_j$, there is probability zero that $|X_i - X_j|$ is rational. There are a countable number of pairs, so by countable additivity, there is probability zero that there exists a pair a rational distance apart.)
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
Nate Eldredge
61.3k579166
61.3k579166
Very clever example.
– Matt Samuel
yesterday
add a comment |
Very clever example.
– Matt Samuel
yesterday
Very clever example.
– Matt Samuel
yesterday
Very clever example.
– Matt Samuel
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
Sometimes extreme cases are a good source of counterexamples. Consider the metric space on a set of one element, $(star, d)$, with $d(star, star)=0$. Clearly for $x=star$, there is no $y$ such that $d(star, y)$ is non zero.
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
Sometimes extreme cases are a good source of counterexamples. Consider the metric space on a set of one element, $(star, d)$, with $d(star, star)=0$. Clearly for $x=star$, there is no $y$ such that $d(star, y)$ is non zero.
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
up vote
6
down vote
Sometimes extreme cases are a good source of counterexamples. Consider the metric space on a set of one element, $(star, d)$, with $d(star, star)=0$. Clearly for $x=star$, there is no $y$ such that $d(star, y)$ is non zero.
Sometimes extreme cases are a good source of counterexamples. Consider the metric space on a set of one element, $(star, d)$, with $d(star, star)=0$. Clearly for $x=star$, there is no $y$ such that $d(star, y)$ is non zero.
answered yesterday
Mjiig
38727
38727
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
-3
down vote
The statement in the text of the question is almost true (would be true without the word "nonzero"). For every x, there exists a point y, namely the point y=x, such that y is at a rational distance (zero) from x. The statement in the title of the question ("another point") is false, however, as the word "another" implies that y must differ from x and as the other answers already show. So you have to read this sort of question very carefully to answer it correctly.
New contributor
1
"... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
– Robert Howard
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
-3
down vote
The statement in the text of the question is almost true (would be true without the word "nonzero"). For every x, there exists a point y, namely the point y=x, such that y is at a rational distance (zero) from x. The statement in the title of the question ("another point") is false, however, as the word "another" implies that y must differ from x and as the other answers already show. So you have to read this sort of question very carefully to answer it correctly.
New contributor
1
"... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
– Robert Howard
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
-3
down vote
up vote
-3
down vote
The statement in the text of the question is almost true (would be true without the word "nonzero"). For every x, there exists a point y, namely the point y=x, such that y is at a rational distance (zero) from x. The statement in the title of the question ("another point") is false, however, as the word "another" implies that y must differ from x and as the other answers already show. So you have to read this sort of question very carefully to answer it correctly.
New contributor
The statement in the text of the question is almost true (would be true without the word "nonzero"). For every x, there exists a point y, namely the point y=x, such that y is at a rational distance (zero) from x. The statement in the title of the question ("another point") is false, however, as the word "another" implies that y must differ from x and as the other answers already show. So you have to read this sort of question very carefully to answer it correctly.
New contributor
edited yesterday
David Eppstein
1032
1032
New contributor
answered yesterday
David Eppstein
1
1
New contributor
New contributor
1
"... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
– Robert Howard
yesterday
add a comment |
1
"... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
– Robert Howard
yesterday
1
1
"... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
– Robert Howard
yesterday
"... such that $d(x,y)$ is a non-zero rational number."
– Robert Howard
yesterday
add a comment |
3
What have you tried for finding counterexamples?
– Dark Malthorp
yesterday
9
Think about the discrete metric, but choose an irrational number instead of $1$.
– Richard
yesterday
@Richard good logics
– jasmine
yesterday
1
If I'm not completely mistaken, any counterexample has to be a totally disconnected space. (For any $a,bin X$, we can split $X$ into the open sets $xin X: d(x,a) < r$ and $xin X: d(x,a) > r$ for some rational $r < d(a,b)$) Depending on what you are interested in, such spaces aren't really "reasonable" (at least that's the case for me), so that might be why you missed the counterexamples.
– mlk
17 hours ago