Using derivatives to compute velocity if only displacement is given

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I am reading about the Chain Rule of derivative and encountered this problem:



If a ball is flying at an angle of π/4, what is the required velocity so it will reach 40 foot high and 350 feet horizontal distance?



The given displacement function is:



x(t) = v.cos($theta$).t



y(t) = v.sin($theta$).t-(16t$^2$)



Where t is time in second and v is the initial velocity.



I couldn't figure out where to start. I tried solving for t as the time when ball reaches the maximum height but I am stuck there.










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    I am reading about the Chain Rule of derivative and encountered this problem:



    If a ball is flying at an angle of π/4, what is the required velocity so it will reach 40 foot high and 350 feet horizontal distance?



    The given displacement function is:



    x(t) = v.cos($theta$).t



    y(t) = v.sin($theta$).t-(16t$^2$)



    Where t is time in second and v is the initial velocity.



    I couldn't figure out where to start. I tried solving for t as the time when ball reaches the maximum height but I am stuck there.










    share|cite|improve this question























      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite











      I am reading about the Chain Rule of derivative and encountered this problem:



      If a ball is flying at an angle of π/4, what is the required velocity so it will reach 40 foot high and 350 feet horizontal distance?



      The given displacement function is:



      x(t) = v.cos($theta$).t



      y(t) = v.sin($theta$).t-(16t$^2$)



      Where t is time in second and v is the initial velocity.



      I couldn't figure out where to start. I tried solving for t as the time when ball reaches the maximum height but I am stuck there.










      share|cite|improve this question













      I am reading about the Chain Rule of derivative and encountered this problem:



      If a ball is flying at an angle of π/4, what is the required velocity so it will reach 40 foot high and 350 feet horizontal distance?



      The given displacement function is:



      x(t) = v.cos($theta$).t



      y(t) = v.sin($theta$).t-(16t$^2$)



      Where t is time in second and v is the initial velocity.



      I couldn't figure out where to start. I tried solving for t as the time when ball reaches the maximum height but I am stuck there.







      calculus derivatives chain-rule projectile-motion






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      asked Sep 4 at 7:20









      Edville

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          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

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          up vote
          2
          down vote



          accepted










          You have that $theta$= $pi$/4
          So you can get the cosine and sine
          So you just have to put that:



          x(t) = v.cos($theta$).t=350



          y(t) = v.sin($theta$).t-(16t$^2$)=40



          And solve these 2 equations in 2 unknowns to get v and t






          share|cite|improve this answer




















          • This is a correct method. Eliminating v, you get an equation of the form t^2 = numbers, and you use the positive root (obviously). To add some physics/intuition - note that the angle is 45 degrees - the optimum angle for maximum distance, and notice that since the horizontal distance (350) is much larger than the vertical one (40), the ball reaches this point on its way back down.
            – osbert
            Sep 4 at 9:14


















          up vote
          1
          down vote













          You would be much more well-advised to solve this kind of problem by using the energy principle. Write the initial kinetic energy as $T=frac12mv^2$ and the potential energy as the top as $V=mgh$. Then, at the peak, $T=V$, and you can very easily solve $v$. Note that this concerns the vertical component of velocity because the gravity does not do anything to the horizontal component. You could write $v_tot=sqrt2v$ to get the total initial speed becuase $v$ is the projection of $v_tot$ on y axis.



          Then, how far the ball flies? This you can solve by concerning $t_peak=v/g$, i.e. gravity takes $t_peak$ seconds to wear out the y component of velocity. The total flying time is, of course, $2t_peak$ and the journey travelled $v2t_peak$. I would say that always use the energy principle in problems involving gravity.



          You might ask can you separate kinetic energy in $x$ and $y$ components. Yes, you can. Here's the proof:
          beginequationT_tot=frac12m|v|^2=frac12mleft(sqrtv_x^2+v_y^2right)^2=frac12mleft(v_x^2+v_y^2right)=frac12mv_x^2+frac12mv_y^2=T_v+T_y.endequation
          In your ball example, I have denoted the y component as plain $T$.






          share|cite|improve this answer



























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            The vertical speed is $vsintheta-32 t$. You cancel it to find the time to the maximum height. Then you plug this time in the $y$ equation to find the maximum altitude.



            To find the horizontal distance, solve the equation $y(t)=0$ for $t$, and plug the value of $t$ in the $x$ equation.



            It is possible that you find two different values for $v$. Logically, you should pick the largest.






            share|cite|improve this answer



























              up vote
              0
              down vote













              You know the max height will be when the ball starts to travel downwards again, so the rate of change of vertical velocity will be 0. Try differentiating your $x(t)$, plugging in 0 and seeing what you get for $t_1$.



              For the distance, where the ball lands will be at time $t_2$ where $y(t_2)=0.$






              share|cite|improve this answer




















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                4 Answers
                4






                active

                oldest

                votes








                4 Answers
                4






                active

                oldest

                votes









                active

                oldest

                votes






                active

                oldest

                votes








                up vote
                2
                down vote



                accepted










                You have that $theta$= $pi$/4
                So you can get the cosine and sine
                So you just have to put that:



                x(t) = v.cos($theta$).t=350



                y(t) = v.sin($theta$).t-(16t$^2$)=40



                And solve these 2 equations in 2 unknowns to get v and t






                share|cite|improve this answer




















                • This is a correct method. Eliminating v, you get an equation of the form t^2 = numbers, and you use the positive root (obviously). To add some physics/intuition - note that the angle is 45 degrees - the optimum angle for maximum distance, and notice that since the horizontal distance (350) is much larger than the vertical one (40), the ball reaches this point on its way back down.
                  – osbert
                  Sep 4 at 9:14















                up vote
                2
                down vote



                accepted










                You have that $theta$= $pi$/4
                So you can get the cosine and sine
                So you just have to put that:



                x(t) = v.cos($theta$).t=350



                y(t) = v.sin($theta$).t-(16t$^2$)=40



                And solve these 2 equations in 2 unknowns to get v and t






                share|cite|improve this answer




















                • This is a correct method. Eliminating v, you get an equation of the form t^2 = numbers, and you use the positive root (obviously). To add some physics/intuition - note that the angle is 45 degrees - the optimum angle for maximum distance, and notice that since the horizontal distance (350) is much larger than the vertical one (40), the ball reaches this point on its way back down.
                  – osbert
                  Sep 4 at 9:14













                up vote
                2
                down vote



                accepted







                up vote
                2
                down vote



                accepted






                You have that $theta$= $pi$/4
                So you can get the cosine and sine
                So you just have to put that:



                x(t) = v.cos($theta$).t=350



                y(t) = v.sin($theta$).t-(16t$^2$)=40



                And solve these 2 equations in 2 unknowns to get v and t






                share|cite|improve this answer












                You have that $theta$= $pi$/4
                So you can get the cosine and sine
                So you just have to put that:



                x(t) = v.cos($theta$).t=350



                y(t) = v.sin($theta$).t-(16t$^2$)=40



                And solve these 2 equations in 2 unknowns to get v and t







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Sep 4 at 8:18









                Fareed AF

                916




                916











                • This is a correct method. Eliminating v, you get an equation of the form t^2 = numbers, and you use the positive root (obviously). To add some physics/intuition - note that the angle is 45 degrees - the optimum angle for maximum distance, and notice that since the horizontal distance (350) is much larger than the vertical one (40), the ball reaches this point on its way back down.
                  – osbert
                  Sep 4 at 9:14

















                • This is a correct method. Eliminating v, you get an equation of the form t^2 = numbers, and you use the positive root (obviously). To add some physics/intuition - note that the angle is 45 degrees - the optimum angle for maximum distance, and notice that since the horizontal distance (350) is much larger than the vertical one (40), the ball reaches this point on its way back down.
                  – osbert
                  Sep 4 at 9:14
















                This is a correct method. Eliminating v, you get an equation of the form t^2 = numbers, and you use the positive root (obviously). To add some physics/intuition - note that the angle is 45 degrees - the optimum angle for maximum distance, and notice that since the horizontal distance (350) is much larger than the vertical one (40), the ball reaches this point on its way back down.
                – osbert
                Sep 4 at 9:14





                This is a correct method. Eliminating v, you get an equation of the form t^2 = numbers, and you use the positive root (obviously). To add some physics/intuition - note that the angle is 45 degrees - the optimum angle for maximum distance, and notice that since the horizontal distance (350) is much larger than the vertical one (40), the ball reaches this point on its way back down.
                – osbert
                Sep 4 at 9:14











                up vote
                1
                down vote













                You would be much more well-advised to solve this kind of problem by using the energy principle. Write the initial kinetic energy as $T=frac12mv^2$ and the potential energy as the top as $V=mgh$. Then, at the peak, $T=V$, and you can very easily solve $v$. Note that this concerns the vertical component of velocity because the gravity does not do anything to the horizontal component. You could write $v_tot=sqrt2v$ to get the total initial speed becuase $v$ is the projection of $v_tot$ on y axis.



                Then, how far the ball flies? This you can solve by concerning $t_peak=v/g$, i.e. gravity takes $t_peak$ seconds to wear out the y component of velocity. The total flying time is, of course, $2t_peak$ and the journey travelled $v2t_peak$. I would say that always use the energy principle in problems involving gravity.



                You might ask can you separate kinetic energy in $x$ and $y$ components. Yes, you can. Here's the proof:
                beginequationT_tot=frac12m|v|^2=frac12mleft(sqrtv_x^2+v_y^2right)^2=frac12mleft(v_x^2+v_y^2right)=frac12mv_x^2+frac12mv_y^2=T_v+T_y.endequation
                In your ball example, I have denoted the y component as plain $T$.






                share|cite|improve this answer
























                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote













                  You would be much more well-advised to solve this kind of problem by using the energy principle. Write the initial kinetic energy as $T=frac12mv^2$ and the potential energy as the top as $V=mgh$. Then, at the peak, $T=V$, and you can very easily solve $v$. Note that this concerns the vertical component of velocity because the gravity does not do anything to the horizontal component. You could write $v_tot=sqrt2v$ to get the total initial speed becuase $v$ is the projection of $v_tot$ on y axis.



                  Then, how far the ball flies? This you can solve by concerning $t_peak=v/g$, i.e. gravity takes $t_peak$ seconds to wear out the y component of velocity. The total flying time is, of course, $2t_peak$ and the journey travelled $v2t_peak$. I would say that always use the energy principle in problems involving gravity.



                  You might ask can you separate kinetic energy in $x$ and $y$ components. Yes, you can. Here's the proof:
                  beginequationT_tot=frac12m|v|^2=frac12mleft(sqrtv_x^2+v_y^2right)^2=frac12mleft(v_x^2+v_y^2right)=frac12mv_x^2+frac12mv_y^2=T_v+T_y.endequation
                  In your ball example, I have denoted the y component as plain $T$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer






















                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote









                    You would be much more well-advised to solve this kind of problem by using the energy principle. Write the initial kinetic energy as $T=frac12mv^2$ and the potential energy as the top as $V=mgh$. Then, at the peak, $T=V$, and you can very easily solve $v$. Note that this concerns the vertical component of velocity because the gravity does not do anything to the horizontal component. You could write $v_tot=sqrt2v$ to get the total initial speed becuase $v$ is the projection of $v_tot$ on y axis.



                    Then, how far the ball flies? This you can solve by concerning $t_peak=v/g$, i.e. gravity takes $t_peak$ seconds to wear out the y component of velocity. The total flying time is, of course, $2t_peak$ and the journey travelled $v2t_peak$. I would say that always use the energy principle in problems involving gravity.



                    You might ask can you separate kinetic energy in $x$ and $y$ components. Yes, you can. Here's the proof:
                    beginequationT_tot=frac12m|v|^2=frac12mleft(sqrtv_x^2+v_y^2right)^2=frac12mleft(v_x^2+v_y^2right)=frac12mv_x^2+frac12mv_y^2=T_v+T_y.endequation
                    In your ball example, I have denoted the y component as plain $T$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    You would be much more well-advised to solve this kind of problem by using the energy principle. Write the initial kinetic energy as $T=frac12mv^2$ and the potential energy as the top as $V=mgh$. Then, at the peak, $T=V$, and you can very easily solve $v$. Note that this concerns the vertical component of velocity because the gravity does not do anything to the horizontal component. You could write $v_tot=sqrt2v$ to get the total initial speed becuase $v$ is the projection of $v_tot$ on y axis.



                    Then, how far the ball flies? This you can solve by concerning $t_peak=v/g$, i.e. gravity takes $t_peak$ seconds to wear out the y component of velocity. The total flying time is, of course, $2t_peak$ and the journey travelled $v2t_peak$. I would say that always use the energy principle in problems involving gravity.



                    You might ask can you separate kinetic energy in $x$ and $y$ components. Yes, you can. Here's the proof:
                    beginequationT_tot=frac12m|v|^2=frac12mleft(sqrtv_x^2+v_y^2right)^2=frac12mleft(v_x^2+v_y^2right)=frac12mv_x^2+frac12mv_y^2=T_v+T_y.endequation
                    In your ball example, I have denoted the y component as plain $T$.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Sep 4 at 7:45









                    stats_boy

                    263




                    263




















                        up vote
                        0
                        down vote













                        The vertical speed is $vsintheta-32 t$. You cancel it to find the time to the maximum height. Then you plug this time in the $y$ equation to find the maximum altitude.



                        To find the horizontal distance, solve the equation $y(t)=0$ for $t$, and plug the value of $t$ in the $x$ equation.



                        It is possible that you find two different values for $v$. Logically, you should pick the largest.






                        share|cite|improve this answer
























                          up vote
                          0
                          down vote













                          The vertical speed is $vsintheta-32 t$. You cancel it to find the time to the maximum height. Then you plug this time in the $y$ equation to find the maximum altitude.



                          To find the horizontal distance, solve the equation $y(t)=0$ for $t$, and plug the value of $t$ in the $x$ equation.



                          It is possible that you find two different values for $v$. Logically, you should pick the largest.






                          share|cite|improve this answer






















                            up vote
                            0
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            0
                            down vote









                            The vertical speed is $vsintheta-32 t$. You cancel it to find the time to the maximum height. Then you plug this time in the $y$ equation to find the maximum altitude.



                            To find the horizontal distance, solve the equation $y(t)=0$ for $t$, and plug the value of $t$ in the $x$ equation.



                            It is possible that you find two different values for $v$. Logically, you should pick the largest.






                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            The vertical speed is $vsintheta-32 t$. You cancel it to find the time to the maximum height. Then you plug this time in the $y$ equation to find the maximum altitude.



                            To find the horizontal distance, solve the equation $y(t)=0$ for $t$, and plug the value of $t$ in the $x$ equation.



                            It is possible that you find two different values for $v$. Logically, you should pick the largest.







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered Sep 4 at 7:29









                            Yves Daoust

                            114k666209




                            114k666209




















                                up vote
                                0
                                down vote













                                You know the max height will be when the ball starts to travel downwards again, so the rate of change of vertical velocity will be 0. Try differentiating your $x(t)$, plugging in 0 and seeing what you get for $t_1$.



                                For the distance, where the ball lands will be at time $t_2$ where $y(t_2)=0.$






                                share|cite|improve this answer
























                                  up vote
                                  0
                                  down vote













                                  You know the max height will be when the ball starts to travel downwards again, so the rate of change of vertical velocity will be 0. Try differentiating your $x(t)$, plugging in 0 and seeing what you get for $t_1$.



                                  For the distance, where the ball lands will be at time $t_2$ where $y(t_2)=0.$






                                  share|cite|improve this answer






















                                    up vote
                                    0
                                    down vote










                                    up vote
                                    0
                                    down vote









                                    You know the max height will be when the ball starts to travel downwards again, so the rate of change of vertical velocity will be 0. Try differentiating your $x(t)$, plugging in 0 and seeing what you get for $t_1$.



                                    For the distance, where the ball lands will be at time $t_2$ where $y(t_2)=0.$






                                    share|cite|improve this answer












                                    You know the max height will be when the ball starts to travel downwards again, so the rate of change of vertical velocity will be 0. Try differentiating your $x(t)$, plugging in 0 and seeing what you get for $t_1$.



                                    For the distance, where the ball lands will be at time $t_2$ where $y(t_2)=0.$







                                    share|cite|improve this answer












                                    share|cite|improve this answer



                                    share|cite|improve this answer










                                    answered Sep 4 at 7:29









                                    MRobinson

                                    59814




                                    59814



























                                         

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