How to prove that the sum of independent Binomials with different probabilities is not Binomial

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Say I have two biased coins with probabilities of coming up heads $p$ and $r$, where $pne r$.



If I toss each of the coins $n$ times, the number of heads that show up is Poisson Binomial distributed.



But how do I prove that it is not Binomial?
I tried using MGFs but the problem gets complex really fast.



Thank you for your help.










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  • It's perhaps easier if you use ordinary p.g.f.s . Do you know the unique factorization theorem for polynomials?
    – kimchi lover
    Sep 4 at 11:15














up vote
0
down vote

favorite












Say I have two biased coins with probabilities of coming up heads $p$ and $r$, where $pne r$.



If I toss each of the coins $n$ times, the number of heads that show up is Poisson Binomial distributed.



But how do I prove that it is not Binomial?
I tried using MGFs but the problem gets complex really fast.



Thank you for your help.










share|cite|improve this question























  • It's perhaps easier if you use ordinary p.g.f.s . Do you know the unique factorization theorem for polynomials?
    – kimchi lover
    Sep 4 at 11:15












up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite











Say I have two biased coins with probabilities of coming up heads $p$ and $r$, where $pne r$.



If I toss each of the coins $n$ times, the number of heads that show up is Poisson Binomial distributed.



But how do I prove that it is not Binomial?
I tried using MGFs but the problem gets complex really fast.



Thank you for your help.










share|cite|improve this question















Say I have two biased coins with probabilities of coming up heads $p$ and $r$, where $pne r$.



If I toss each of the coins $n$ times, the number of heads that show up is Poisson Binomial distributed.



But how do I prove that it is not Binomial?
I tried using MGFs but the problem gets complex really fast.



Thank you for your help.







probability probability-distributions






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edited Sep 4 at 11:17









GoodDeeds

10.2k21335




10.2k21335










asked Sep 4 at 10:56









INiCOLAl

31




31











  • It's perhaps easier if you use ordinary p.g.f.s . Do you know the unique factorization theorem for polynomials?
    – kimchi lover
    Sep 4 at 11:15
















  • It's perhaps easier if you use ordinary p.g.f.s . Do you know the unique factorization theorem for polynomials?
    – kimchi lover
    Sep 4 at 11:15















It's perhaps easier if you use ordinary p.g.f.s . Do you know the unique factorization theorem for polynomials?
– kimchi lover
Sep 4 at 11:15




It's perhaps easier if you use ordinary p.g.f.s . Do you know the unique factorization theorem for polynomials?
– kimchi lover
Sep 4 at 11:15










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
1
down vote



accepted










But MGF gives you an anwser immediately. Binomial distribution's MGF is
$$(1 - p + pe^t)^n$$
But for your distribution it looks like this
$$prod(1 - p_i + p_ie^t)^n_i$$
Think about this thing as you're thinking about polynomials, replace $e^t$ term with $x$
and check what happens:
$$p^n(frac1p - 1 + x)^n$$
$$prod p_i(frac1p_i - 1 + x)^n_i$$
As you can see, it can not be the same polynomial, unless $p_i$ equals $p$ for all $i$.






share|cite|improve this answer



























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    If it would be binomial then it must have parameters $2n$ and $q$.



    Then the expectation should be $2nq$ and variance should be $2nq(1-q)$.



    That leads to $2nq=mathbb EX=np+nr$ or equivalently: $$2q=p+rtag1$$



    And $2nq(1-q)=np(1-p)+nr(1-r)$ or equivalently: $$2q-2q^2=p-p^2+r-r^2tag2$$



    Substituting $(1)$ in $(2)$ we find:$$(p-r)^2=0$$



    This contradicts that $pneq r$ so under that condition it is excluded that we are dealing with binomial distribution.






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
      – Mike Earnest
      Sep 4 at 13:37










    • @MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
      – drhab
      Sep 4 at 13:39










    • It wouldn’t take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
      – Mike Earnest
      Sep 4 at 13:42










    • @MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
      – drhab
      Sep 4 at 13:54










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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    1
    down vote



    accepted










    But MGF gives you an anwser immediately. Binomial distribution's MGF is
    $$(1 - p + pe^t)^n$$
    But for your distribution it looks like this
    $$prod(1 - p_i + p_ie^t)^n_i$$
    Think about this thing as you're thinking about polynomials, replace $e^t$ term with $x$
    and check what happens:
    $$p^n(frac1p - 1 + x)^n$$
    $$prod p_i(frac1p_i - 1 + x)^n_i$$
    As you can see, it can not be the same polynomial, unless $p_i$ equals $p$ for all $i$.






    share|cite|improve this answer
























      up vote
      1
      down vote



      accepted










      But MGF gives you an anwser immediately. Binomial distribution's MGF is
      $$(1 - p + pe^t)^n$$
      But for your distribution it looks like this
      $$prod(1 - p_i + p_ie^t)^n_i$$
      Think about this thing as you're thinking about polynomials, replace $e^t$ term with $x$
      and check what happens:
      $$p^n(frac1p - 1 + x)^n$$
      $$prod p_i(frac1p_i - 1 + x)^n_i$$
      As you can see, it can not be the same polynomial, unless $p_i$ equals $p$ for all $i$.






      share|cite|improve this answer






















        up vote
        1
        down vote



        accepted







        up vote
        1
        down vote



        accepted






        But MGF gives you an anwser immediately. Binomial distribution's MGF is
        $$(1 - p + pe^t)^n$$
        But for your distribution it looks like this
        $$prod(1 - p_i + p_ie^t)^n_i$$
        Think about this thing as you're thinking about polynomials, replace $e^t$ term with $x$
        and check what happens:
        $$p^n(frac1p - 1 + x)^n$$
        $$prod p_i(frac1p_i - 1 + x)^n_i$$
        As you can see, it can not be the same polynomial, unless $p_i$ equals $p$ for all $i$.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        But MGF gives you an anwser immediately. Binomial distribution's MGF is
        $$(1 - p + pe^t)^n$$
        But for your distribution it looks like this
        $$prod(1 - p_i + p_ie^t)^n_i$$
        Think about this thing as you're thinking about polynomials, replace $e^t$ term with $x$
        and check what happens:
        $$p^n(frac1p - 1 + x)^n$$
        $$prod p_i(frac1p_i - 1 + x)^n_i$$
        As you can see, it can not be the same polynomial, unless $p_i$ equals $p$ for all $i$.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Sep 4 at 11:27









        Janczar Knurek

        261




        261




















            up vote
            1
            down vote













            If it would be binomial then it must have parameters $2n$ and $q$.



            Then the expectation should be $2nq$ and variance should be $2nq(1-q)$.



            That leads to $2nq=mathbb EX=np+nr$ or equivalently: $$2q=p+rtag1$$



            And $2nq(1-q)=np(1-p)+nr(1-r)$ or equivalently: $$2q-2q^2=p-p^2+r-r^2tag2$$



            Substituting $(1)$ in $(2)$ we find:$$(p-r)^2=0$$



            This contradicts that $pneq r$ so under that condition it is excluded that we are dealing with binomial distribution.






            share|cite|improve this answer






















            • They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
              – Mike Earnest
              Sep 4 at 13:37










            • @MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
              – drhab
              Sep 4 at 13:39










            • It wouldn’t take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
              – Mike Earnest
              Sep 4 at 13:42










            • @MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
              – drhab
              Sep 4 at 13:54














            up vote
            1
            down vote













            If it would be binomial then it must have parameters $2n$ and $q$.



            Then the expectation should be $2nq$ and variance should be $2nq(1-q)$.



            That leads to $2nq=mathbb EX=np+nr$ or equivalently: $$2q=p+rtag1$$



            And $2nq(1-q)=np(1-p)+nr(1-r)$ or equivalently: $$2q-2q^2=p-p^2+r-r^2tag2$$



            Substituting $(1)$ in $(2)$ we find:$$(p-r)^2=0$$



            This contradicts that $pneq r$ so under that condition it is excluded that we are dealing with binomial distribution.






            share|cite|improve this answer






















            • They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
              – Mike Earnest
              Sep 4 at 13:37










            • @MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
              – drhab
              Sep 4 at 13:39










            • It wouldn’t take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
              – Mike Earnest
              Sep 4 at 13:42










            • @MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
              – drhab
              Sep 4 at 13:54












            up vote
            1
            down vote










            up vote
            1
            down vote









            If it would be binomial then it must have parameters $2n$ and $q$.



            Then the expectation should be $2nq$ and variance should be $2nq(1-q)$.



            That leads to $2nq=mathbb EX=np+nr$ or equivalently: $$2q=p+rtag1$$



            And $2nq(1-q)=np(1-p)+nr(1-r)$ or equivalently: $$2q-2q^2=p-p^2+r-r^2tag2$$



            Substituting $(1)$ in $(2)$ we find:$$(p-r)^2=0$$



            This contradicts that $pneq r$ so under that condition it is excluded that we are dealing with binomial distribution.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            If it would be binomial then it must have parameters $2n$ and $q$.



            Then the expectation should be $2nq$ and variance should be $2nq(1-q)$.



            That leads to $2nq=mathbb EX=np+nr$ or equivalently: $$2q=p+rtag1$$



            And $2nq(1-q)=np(1-p)+nr(1-r)$ or equivalently: $$2q-2q^2=p-p^2+r-r^2tag2$$



            Substituting $(1)$ in $(2)$ we find:$$(p-r)^2=0$$



            This contradicts that $pneq r$ so under that condition it is excluded that we are dealing with binomial distribution.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Sep 4 at 13:53

























            answered Sep 4 at 11:14









            drhab

            89.1k541122




            89.1k541122











            • They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
              – Mike Earnest
              Sep 4 at 13:37










            • @MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
              – drhab
              Sep 4 at 13:39










            • It wouldn’t take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
              – Mike Earnest
              Sep 4 at 13:42










            • @MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
              – drhab
              Sep 4 at 13:54
















            • They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
              – Mike Earnest
              Sep 4 at 13:37










            • @MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
              – drhab
              Sep 4 at 13:39










            • It wouldn’t take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
              – Mike Earnest
              Sep 4 at 13:42










            • @MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
              – drhab
              Sep 4 at 13:54















            They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
            – Mike Earnest
            Sep 4 at 13:37




            They are tossing each coin $n$ times, so the first parameter should be $2n$, not 2.
            – Mike Earnest
            Sep 4 at 13:37












            @MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
            – drhab
            Sep 4 at 13:39




            @MikeEarnest Thank you. I misread and thought it concerned two coins with different chance on heads that were thrown. I will delete within some minutes (and maybe will repair).
            – drhab
            Sep 4 at 13:39












            It wouldn’t take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
            – Mike Earnest
            Sep 4 at 13:42




            It wouldn’t take much to fix, the same proof works, except you have to consider P(X = 2n), and do a little more simplification
            – Mike Earnest
            Sep 4 at 13:42












            @MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
            – drhab
            Sep 4 at 13:54




            @MikeEarnest I repaired (and now used variance).
            – drhab
            Sep 4 at 13:54

















             

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