Visualizations of the (potential) irrationality of $sqrt2$

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











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The following statement is equivalent to Euclid's statement that $sqrt2$ is irrational but has a rather different flavour.



Consider the straight line through two points $0$ and $1$ with the natural numbers $[mathbbN]$ constructed as points



$[n] = 1 + 1 + dots + 1$ ($n$-times):



enter image description here



Consider the point $1'$ constructed like this:



enter image description here



Define $[mathbbN]'$ as the set of points constructed as



$[n]' = 1' + 1' + dots + 1'$ ($n$-times):



enter image description here



Then the statement goes:




For all $n,m$: If $[n] = [m]'$ then $m = n = 0$.




This means, the sets $[mathbbN]$ and $[mathbbN]'$ have only the point $0$ in common. For no $n,m neq 0$ do the points $[n]$ and $[m]'$ happen to coincide.



I wonder if this visual and conceptual perspective on the irrationality of $sqrt2$ has been taken and discussed before, or if it's even a standard perspective - and if not so: if it's an enlightening perspective?




Added: Another - and more straight forward - way to state the irrationality of $sqrt2$ geometrically is by stating that there are no $n,m in mathbbZ$ such that the point $n/m$ constructed this way:



enter image description here



coincides with the point $1' = sqrt2$:



enter image description here



Note that this statement is much harder to draw accurately and to catch and believe visually.



Note further, that this picture does not imply a visual proof of the irrationality of $sqrt2$, neither.




Added: Another - even simpler but less straight forward - way to state the same geometrically is by this construction over two Gaussian integers $n = p + q i$, $m = r + s i$, which gives the rational point $x(n,m) = p - qfracp-rq-s$:



enter image description here



The statement is: For no two Gaussian integers $n = p + q i$, $m= r + s i$ does $x(n,m)$ coincide with $sqrt2$.










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  • 1




    +1) In essence it is Dedekind's notion of cut: if you consider the horizontal line with only rational numbers and you "project the diagonal of the unit square on it, the compass will not "cut" the line, because there is no intersection (rational) point.
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    Sep 4 at 9:11














up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1












The following statement is equivalent to Euclid's statement that $sqrt2$ is irrational but has a rather different flavour.



Consider the straight line through two points $0$ and $1$ with the natural numbers $[mathbbN]$ constructed as points



$[n] = 1 + 1 + dots + 1$ ($n$-times):



enter image description here



Consider the point $1'$ constructed like this:



enter image description here



Define $[mathbbN]'$ as the set of points constructed as



$[n]' = 1' + 1' + dots + 1'$ ($n$-times):



enter image description here



Then the statement goes:




For all $n,m$: If $[n] = [m]'$ then $m = n = 0$.




This means, the sets $[mathbbN]$ and $[mathbbN]'$ have only the point $0$ in common. For no $n,m neq 0$ do the points $[n]$ and $[m]'$ happen to coincide.



I wonder if this visual and conceptual perspective on the irrationality of $sqrt2$ has been taken and discussed before, or if it's even a standard perspective - and if not so: if it's an enlightening perspective?




Added: Another - and more straight forward - way to state the irrationality of $sqrt2$ geometrically is by stating that there are no $n,m in mathbbZ$ such that the point $n/m$ constructed this way:



enter image description here



coincides with the point $1' = sqrt2$:



enter image description here



Note that this statement is much harder to draw accurately and to catch and believe visually.



Note further, that this picture does not imply a visual proof of the irrationality of $sqrt2$, neither.




Added: Another - even simpler but less straight forward - way to state the same geometrically is by this construction over two Gaussian integers $n = p + q i$, $m = r + s i$, which gives the rational point $x(n,m) = p - qfracp-rq-s$:



enter image description here



The statement is: For no two Gaussian integers $n = p + q i$, $m= r + s i$ does $x(n,m)$ coincide with $sqrt2$.










share|cite|improve this question



















  • 1




    +1) In essence it is Dedekind's notion of cut: if you consider the horizontal line with only rational numbers and you "project the diagonal of the unit square on it, the compass will not "cut" the line, because there is no intersection (rational) point.
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    Sep 4 at 9:11












up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1






1





The following statement is equivalent to Euclid's statement that $sqrt2$ is irrational but has a rather different flavour.



Consider the straight line through two points $0$ and $1$ with the natural numbers $[mathbbN]$ constructed as points



$[n] = 1 + 1 + dots + 1$ ($n$-times):



enter image description here



Consider the point $1'$ constructed like this:



enter image description here



Define $[mathbbN]'$ as the set of points constructed as



$[n]' = 1' + 1' + dots + 1'$ ($n$-times):



enter image description here



Then the statement goes:




For all $n,m$: If $[n] = [m]'$ then $m = n = 0$.




This means, the sets $[mathbbN]$ and $[mathbbN]'$ have only the point $0$ in common. For no $n,m neq 0$ do the points $[n]$ and $[m]'$ happen to coincide.



I wonder if this visual and conceptual perspective on the irrationality of $sqrt2$ has been taken and discussed before, or if it's even a standard perspective - and if not so: if it's an enlightening perspective?




Added: Another - and more straight forward - way to state the irrationality of $sqrt2$ geometrically is by stating that there are no $n,m in mathbbZ$ such that the point $n/m$ constructed this way:



enter image description here



coincides with the point $1' = sqrt2$:



enter image description here



Note that this statement is much harder to draw accurately and to catch and believe visually.



Note further, that this picture does not imply a visual proof of the irrationality of $sqrt2$, neither.




Added: Another - even simpler but less straight forward - way to state the same geometrically is by this construction over two Gaussian integers $n = p + q i$, $m = r + s i$, which gives the rational point $x(n,m) = p - qfracp-rq-s$:



enter image description here



The statement is: For no two Gaussian integers $n = p + q i$, $m= r + s i$ does $x(n,m)$ coincide with $sqrt2$.










share|cite|improve this question















The following statement is equivalent to Euclid's statement that $sqrt2$ is irrational but has a rather different flavour.



Consider the straight line through two points $0$ and $1$ with the natural numbers $[mathbbN]$ constructed as points



$[n] = 1 + 1 + dots + 1$ ($n$-times):



enter image description here



Consider the point $1'$ constructed like this:



enter image description here



Define $[mathbbN]'$ as the set of points constructed as



$[n]' = 1' + 1' + dots + 1'$ ($n$-times):



enter image description here



Then the statement goes:




For all $n,m$: If $[n] = [m]'$ then $m = n = 0$.




This means, the sets $[mathbbN]$ and $[mathbbN]'$ have only the point $0$ in common. For no $n,m neq 0$ do the points $[n]$ and $[m]'$ happen to coincide.



I wonder if this visual and conceptual perspective on the irrationality of $sqrt2$ has been taken and discussed before, or if it's even a standard perspective - and if not so: if it's an enlightening perspective?




Added: Another - and more straight forward - way to state the irrationality of $sqrt2$ geometrically is by stating that there are no $n,m in mathbbZ$ such that the point $n/m$ constructed this way:



enter image description here



coincides with the point $1' = sqrt2$:



enter image description here



Note that this statement is much harder to draw accurately and to catch and believe visually.



Note further, that this picture does not imply a visual proof of the irrationality of $sqrt2$, neither.




Added: Another - even simpler but less straight forward - way to state the same geometrically is by this construction over two Gaussian integers $n = p + q i$, $m = r + s i$, which gives the rational point $x(n,m) = p - qfracp-rq-s$:



enter image description here



The statement is: For no two Gaussian integers $n = p + q i$, $m= r + s i$ does $x(n,m)$ coincide with $sqrt2$.







euclidean-geometry irrational-numbers visualization






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edited Sep 4 at 14:08

























asked Sep 4 at 9:04









Hans Stricker

4,51313676




4,51313676







  • 1




    +1) In essence it is Dedekind's notion of cut: if you consider the horizontal line with only rational numbers and you "project the diagonal of the unit square on it, the compass will not "cut" the line, because there is no intersection (rational) point.
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    Sep 4 at 9:11












  • 1




    +1) In essence it is Dedekind's notion of cut: if you consider the horizontal line with only rational numbers and you "project the diagonal of the unit square on it, the compass will not "cut" the line, because there is no intersection (rational) point.
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    Sep 4 at 9:11







1




1




+1) In essence it is Dedekind's notion of cut: if you consider the horizontal line with only rational numbers and you "project the diagonal of the unit square on it, the compass will not "cut" the line, because there is no intersection (rational) point.
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
Sep 4 at 9:11




+1) In essence it is Dedekind's notion of cut: if you consider the horizontal line with only rational numbers and you "project the diagonal of the unit square on it, the compass will not "cut" the line, because there is no intersection (rational) point.
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
Sep 4 at 9:11










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
4
down vote













The first picture proves the constructibility of $sqrt2$.



The second illustrates the concept of irrationality.



There is nothing here about the irrationality of $sqrt2$.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • I admit that! A proof that the tick marks never coincide doesn't immediately follow from the construction. But it's a way to define and visualize irrationality: A number $alpha$ is irrational when $malpha, m in mathbbZ$ only coincides with $n in mathbbZ$ when $m = n = 0$ (see Ennar's answer).
    – Hans Stricker
    Sep 4 at 10:34










  • I admit there is no visible link between the two constructions, but on the other side: there is one, it's only not visible immediately.
    – Hans Stricker
    Sep 4 at 10:36










  • You are perfectly right: It's just a visualization of irrationality (as a concept), and certainly no "visual proof" of the irrationality of $sqrt2$. Thank you for making this clear. (But I won't change the title of my question, OK?)
    – Hans Stricker
    Sep 4 at 10:39






  • 1




    I don't think the visualization was intended as any sort of proof, just a geometric restatement of the definition of irrationality. IMO, such visualization could be very beneficial for educational purposes for the students first encountering irrational numbers compared to the dull "decimal representation of irrational number is infinite and non-periodic".
    – Ennar
    Sep 4 at 10:39










  • @Ennar: Thank you for your comment. That's exactly how I intended my question. (I should have mentioned it). What you say about the dull "decimal representations of irrational number are infinite and non-periodic" perfectly hits the point.
    – Hans Stricker
    Sep 4 at 10:43

















up vote
2
down vote













It is not just $sqrt 2$, you can actually characterize all irrational numbers in such a way.



So, let $alphainmathbb Rsetminus0$ and consider set $kalpha,mid, kinmathbb Z$. That set will contain non-zero integers if and only if $alphainmathbb Q$. This is essentially what you wrote. However, this is nothing new from the usual definition of (ir)rational number.



We can make things more interesting, though, by considering not $kalpha,mid, kinmathbb Z$ on a line, but on a circle instead (by wrapping the real line on a circle). Formally, for a non-zero real $alpha$ consider the set of integer multiples of $alpha$ on a circle $kalpha + mathbb Z,mid, kinmathbb Zsubseteq mathbb R/mathbb Z cong mathbb S^1.$



One interesting thing to note is that for irrational $alpha$, $kalpha + mathbb Z, kinmathbb Z$, are all distinct. Moreover, the following is true:




The set of integer multiples of non-zero real $kalpha + mathbb Z,mid, kinmathbb Z$ is finite if and only if $alphainmathbb Q.$ Otherwise, it is dense in $mathbb Rsetminus mathbb Zcong mathbb S^1.$




There is an elementary argument as to why this is true that you can find here.






share|cite|improve this answer



























    up vote
    2
    down vote













    Not a direct answer to your question - but perhaps what you are looking for.



    enter image description here




    Assuming $a^2=2b^2$, with positive integers $a$ and $b$, one can
    easily establish that also $(2b−a)^2=2(a−b)^2$. The impossibility of
    the former lies in the fact that $a>2b−a$ (which shows that we are
    just at the beginning of an infinite descent.) This is one of the
    proofs of the irrationality of $sqrt2$.




    https://www.cut-the-knot.org/proofs/GraphicalSqRoots.shtml






    share|cite|improve this answer




















    • To be a "proof without words" this would require that you can literally "see" that $(2b-a)^2 = 2(a-b)^2$ which is the content of the carpets theorem. But I found this quite hard - and the proof is involved.
      – Hans Stricker
      Sep 4 at 15:13










    • Thanks for the hint! But to be honest: It's Tom Apostol's proof that is really a perfect "proof without words" - without much explanation you immeadiately see, why infinite descent would be possible
      – Hans Stricker
      Sep 4 at 15:37










    • @HansStricker I agree. That is in fact the proof I vaguely remembered when I searched for the one I eventually posted. You should provide another answer to this question.
      – Ethan Bolker
      Sep 4 at 16:01

















    up vote
    0
    down vote













    Following Ethan's advice I want to draw your attention to Apostol's proof of the irrationality of $sqrt2$ which is as visual as a proof can be (in my opinion): One can literally see at a glance that it proves what it's supposed to prove: the impossibility of a isosceles triangle with integer side length (by infinite descent):



    enter image description here



    Note that it's not a proof completely without words. It helps a lot to read the comments of the author:




    Each line segment in the diagram has integer length, and the three
    segments with double tick marks have equal lengths. (Two of them are
    tangents to the circle from the same point.) Therefore the smaller
    isosceles right triangle with hypotenuse on the horizontal base also
    has integer sides.




    But through own thinking one could come up with this by oneself (having in mind what's to be proved).






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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      4
      down vote













      The first picture proves the constructibility of $sqrt2$.



      The second illustrates the concept of irrationality.



      There is nothing here about the irrationality of $sqrt2$.






      share|cite|improve this answer






















      • I admit that! A proof that the tick marks never coincide doesn't immediately follow from the construction. But it's a way to define and visualize irrationality: A number $alpha$ is irrational when $malpha, m in mathbbZ$ only coincides with $n in mathbbZ$ when $m = n = 0$ (see Ennar's answer).
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:34










      • I admit there is no visible link between the two constructions, but on the other side: there is one, it's only not visible immediately.
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:36










      • You are perfectly right: It's just a visualization of irrationality (as a concept), and certainly no "visual proof" of the irrationality of $sqrt2$. Thank you for making this clear. (But I won't change the title of my question, OK?)
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:39






      • 1




        I don't think the visualization was intended as any sort of proof, just a geometric restatement of the definition of irrationality. IMO, such visualization could be very beneficial for educational purposes for the students first encountering irrational numbers compared to the dull "decimal representation of irrational number is infinite and non-periodic".
        – Ennar
        Sep 4 at 10:39










      • @Ennar: Thank you for your comment. That's exactly how I intended my question. (I should have mentioned it). What you say about the dull "decimal representations of irrational number are infinite and non-periodic" perfectly hits the point.
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:43














      up vote
      4
      down vote













      The first picture proves the constructibility of $sqrt2$.



      The second illustrates the concept of irrationality.



      There is nothing here about the irrationality of $sqrt2$.






      share|cite|improve this answer






















      • I admit that! A proof that the tick marks never coincide doesn't immediately follow from the construction. But it's a way to define and visualize irrationality: A number $alpha$ is irrational when $malpha, m in mathbbZ$ only coincides with $n in mathbbZ$ when $m = n = 0$ (see Ennar's answer).
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:34










      • I admit there is no visible link between the two constructions, but on the other side: there is one, it's only not visible immediately.
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:36










      • You are perfectly right: It's just a visualization of irrationality (as a concept), and certainly no "visual proof" of the irrationality of $sqrt2$. Thank you for making this clear. (But I won't change the title of my question, OK?)
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:39






      • 1




        I don't think the visualization was intended as any sort of proof, just a geometric restatement of the definition of irrationality. IMO, such visualization could be very beneficial for educational purposes for the students first encountering irrational numbers compared to the dull "decimal representation of irrational number is infinite and non-periodic".
        – Ennar
        Sep 4 at 10:39










      • @Ennar: Thank you for your comment. That's exactly how I intended my question. (I should have mentioned it). What you say about the dull "decimal representations of irrational number are infinite and non-periodic" perfectly hits the point.
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:43












      up vote
      4
      down vote










      up vote
      4
      down vote









      The first picture proves the constructibility of $sqrt2$.



      The second illustrates the concept of irrationality.



      There is nothing here about the irrationality of $sqrt2$.






      share|cite|improve this answer














      The first picture proves the constructibility of $sqrt2$.



      The second illustrates the concept of irrationality.



      There is nothing here about the irrationality of $sqrt2$.







      share|cite|improve this answer














      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer








      edited Sep 4 at 11:36

























      answered Sep 4 at 10:28









      Yves Daoust

      114k666209




      114k666209











      • I admit that! A proof that the tick marks never coincide doesn't immediately follow from the construction. But it's a way to define and visualize irrationality: A number $alpha$ is irrational when $malpha, m in mathbbZ$ only coincides with $n in mathbbZ$ when $m = n = 0$ (see Ennar's answer).
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:34










      • I admit there is no visible link between the two constructions, but on the other side: there is one, it's only not visible immediately.
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:36










      • You are perfectly right: It's just a visualization of irrationality (as a concept), and certainly no "visual proof" of the irrationality of $sqrt2$. Thank you for making this clear. (But I won't change the title of my question, OK?)
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:39






      • 1




        I don't think the visualization was intended as any sort of proof, just a geometric restatement of the definition of irrationality. IMO, such visualization could be very beneficial for educational purposes for the students first encountering irrational numbers compared to the dull "decimal representation of irrational number is infinite and non-periodic".
        – Ennar
        Sep 4 at 10:39










      • @Ennar: Thank you for your comment. That's exactly how I intended my question. (I should have mentioned it). What you say about the dull "decimal representations of irrational number are infinite and non-periodic" perfectly hits the point.
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:43
















      • I admit that! A proof that the tick marks never coincide doesn't immediately follow from the construction. But it's a way to define and visualize irrationality: A number $alpha$ is irrational when $malpha, m in mathbbZ$ only coincides with $n in mathbbZ$ when $m = n = 0$ (see Ennar's answer).
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:34










      • I admit there is no visible link between the two constructions, but on the other side: there is one, it's only not visible immediately.
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:36










      • You are perfectly right: It's just a visualization of irrationality (as a concept), and certainly no "visual proof" of the irrationality of $sqrt2$. Thank you for making this clear. (But I won't change the title of my question, OK?)
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:39






      • 1




        I don't think the visualization was intended as any sort of proof, just a geometric restatement of the definition of irrationality. IMO, such visualization could be very beneficial for educational purposes for the students first encountering irrational numbers compared to the dull "decimal representation of irrational number is infinite and non-periodic".
        – Ennar
        Sep 4 at 10:39










      • @Ennar: Thank you for your comment. That's exactly how I intended my question. (I should have mentioned it). What you say about the dull "decimal representations of irrational number are infinite and non-periodic" perfectly hits the point.
        – Hans Stricker
        Sep 4 at 10:43















      I admit that! A proof that the tick marks never coincide doesn't immediately follow from the construction. But it's a way to define and visualize irrationality: A number $alpha$ is irrational when $malpha, m in mathbbZ$ only coincides with $n in mathbbZ$ when $m = n = 0$ (see Ennar's answer).
      – Hans Stricker
      Sep 4 at 10:34




      I admit that! A proof that the tick marks never coincide doesn't immediately follow from the construction. But it's a way to define and visualize irrationality: A number $alpha$ is irrational when $malpha, m in mathbbZ$ only coincides with $n in mathbbZ$ when $m = n = 0$ (see Ennar's answer).
      – Hans Stricker
      Sep 4 at 10:34












      I admit there is no visible link between the two constructions, but on the other side: there is one, it's only not visible immediately.
      – Hans Stricker
      Sep 4 at 10:36




      I admit there is no visible link between the two constructions, but on the other side: there is one, it's only not visible immediately.
      – Hans Stricker
      Sep 4 at 10:36












      You are perfectly right: It's just a visualization of irrationality (as a concept), and certainly no "visual proof" of the irrationality of $sqrt2$. Thank you for making this clear. (But I won't change the title of my question, OK?)
      – Hans Stricker
      Sep 4 at 10:39




      You are perfectly right: It's just a visualization of irrationality (as a concept), and certainly no "visual proof" of the irrationality of $sqrt2$. Thank you for making this clear. (But I won't change the title of my question, OK?)
      – Hans Stricker
      Sep 4 at 10:39




      1




      1




      I don't think the visualization was intended as any sort of proof, just a geometric restatement of the definition of irrationality. IMO, such visualization could be very beneficial for educational purposes for the students first encountering irrational numbers compared to the dull "decimal representation of irrational number is infinite and non-periodic".
      – Ennar
      Sep 4 at 10:39




      I don't think the visualization was intended as any sort of proof, just a geometric restatement of the definition of irrationality. IMO, such visualization could be very beneficial for educational purposes for the students first encountering irrational numbers compared to the dull "decimal representation of irrational number is infinite and non-periodic".
      – Ennar
      Sep 4 at 10:39












      @Ennar: Thank you for your comment. That's exactly how I intended my question. (I should have mentioned it). What you say about the dull "decimal representations of irrational number are infinite and non-periodic" perfectly hits the point.
      – Hans Stricker
      Sep 4 at 10:43




      @Ennar: Thank you for your comment. That's exactly how I intended my question. (I should have mentioned it). What you say about the dull "decimal representations of irrational number are infinite and non-periodic" perfectly hits the point.
      – Hans Stricker
      Sep 4 at 10:43










      up vote
      2
      down vote













      It is not just $sqrt 2$, you can actually characterize all irrational numbers in such a way.



      So, let $alphainmathbb Rsetminus0$ and consider set $kalpha,mid, kinmathbb Z$. That set will contain non-zero integers if and only if $alphainmathbb Q$. This is essentially what you wrote. However, this is nothing new from the usual definition of (ir)rational number.



      We can make things more interesting, though, by considering not $kalpha,mid, kinmathbb Z$ on a line, but on a circle instead (by wrapping the real line on a circle). Formally, for a non-zero real $alpha$ consider the set of integer multiples of $alpha$ on a circle $kalpha + mathbb Z,mid, kinmathbb Zsubseteq mathbb R/mathbb Z cong mathbb S^1.$



      One interesting thing to note is that for irrational $alpha$, $kalpha + mathbb Z, kinmathbb Z$, are all distinct. Moreover, the following is true:




      The set of integer multiples of non-zero real $kalpha + mathbb Z,mid, kinmathbb Z$ is finite if and only if $alphainmathbb Q.$ Otherwise, it is dense in $mathbb Rsetminus mathbb Zcong mathbb S^1.$




      There is an elementary argument as to why this is true that you can find here.






      share|cite|improve this answer
























        up vote
        2
        down vote













        It is not just $sqrt 2$, you can actually characterize all irrational numbers in such a way.



        So, let $alphainmathbb Rsetminus0$ and consider set $kalpha,mid, kinmathbb Z$. That set will contain non-zero integers if and only if $alphainmathbb Q$. This is essentially what you wrote. However, this is nothing new from the usual definition of (ir)rational number.



        We can make things more interesting, though, by considering not $kalpha,mid, kinmathbb Z$ on a line, but on a circle instead (by wrapping the real line on a circle). Formally, for a non-zero real $alpha$ consider the set of integer multiples of $alpha$ on a circle $kalpha + mathbb Z,mid, kinmathbb Zsubseteq mathbb R/mathbb Z cong mathbb S^1.$



        One interesting thing to note is that for irrational $alpha$, $kalpha + mathbb Z, kinmathbb Z$, are all distinct. Moreover, the following is true:




        The set of integer multiples of non-zero real $kalpha + mathbb Z,mid, kinmathbb Z$ is finite if and only if $alphainmathbb Q.$ Otherwise, it is dense in $mathbb Rsetminus mathbb Zcong mathbb S^1.$




        There is an elementary argument as to why this is true that you can find here.






        share|cite|improve this answer






















          up vote
          2
          down vote










          up vote
          2
          down vote









          It is not just $sqrt 2$, you can actually characterize all irrational numbers in such a way.



          So, let $alphainmathbb Rsetminus0$ and consider set $kalpha,mid, kinmathbb Z$. That set will contain non-zero integers if and only if $alphainmathbb Q$. This is essentially what you wrote. However, this is nothing new from the usual definition of (ir)rational number.



          We can make things more interesting, though, by considering not $kalpha,mid, kinmathbb Z$ on a line, but on a circle instead (by wrapping the real line on a circle). Formally, for a non-zero real $alpha$ consider the set of integer multiples of $alpha$ on a circle $kalpha + mathbb Z,mid, kinmathbb Zsubseteq mathbb R/mathbb Z cong mathbb S^1.$



          One interesting thing to note is that for irrational $alpha$, $kalpha + mathbb Z, kinmathbb Z$, are all distinct. Moreover, the following is true:




          The set of integer multiples of non-zero real $kalpha + mathbb Z,mid, kinmathbb Z$ is finite if and only if $alphainmathbb Q.$ Otherwise, it is dense in $mathbb Rsetminus mathbb Zcong mathbb S^1.$




          There is an elementary argument as to why this is true that you can find here.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          It is not just $sqrt 2$, you can actually characterize all irrational numbers in such a way.



          So, let $alphainmathbb Rsetminus0$ and consider set $kalpha,mid, kinmathbb Z$. That set will contain non-zero integers if and only if $alphainmathbb Q$. This is essentially what you wrote. However, this is nothing new from the usual definition of (ir)rational number.



          We can make things more interesting, though, by considering not $kalpha,mid, kinmathbb Z$ on a line, but on a circle instead (by wrapping the real line on a circle). Formally, for a non-zero real $alpha$ consider the set of integer multiples of $alpha$ on a circle $kalpha + mathbb Z,mid, kinmathbb Zsubseteq mathbb R/mathbb Z cong mathbb S^1.$



          One interesting thing to note is that for irrational $alpha$, $kalpha + mathbb Z, kinmathbb Z$, are all distinct. Moreover, the following is true:




          The set of integer multiples of non-zero real $kalpha + mathbb Z,mid, kinmathbb Z$ is finite if and only if $alphainmathbb Q.$ Otherwise, it is dense in $mathbb Rsetminus mathbb Zcong mathbb S^1.$




          There is an elementary argument as to why this is true that you can find here.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Sep 4 at 10:23









          Ennar

          13.3k32343




          13.3k32343




















              up vote
              2
              down vote













              Not a direct answer to your question - but perhaps what you are looking for.



              enter image description here




              Assuming $a^2=2b^2$, with positive integers $a$ and $b$, one can
              easily establish that also $(2b−a)^2=2(a−b)^2$. The impossibility of
              the former lies in the fact that $a>2b−a$ (which shows that we are
              just at the beginning of an infinite descent.) This is one of the
              proofs of the irrationality of $sqrt2$.




              https://www.cut-the-knot.org/proofs/GraphicalSqRoots.shtml






              share|cite|improve this answer




















              • To be a "proof without words" this would require that you can literally "see" that $(2b-a)^2 = 2(a-b)^2$ which is the content of the carpets theorem. But I found this quite hard - and the proof is involved.
                – Hans Stricker
                Sep 4 at 15:13










              • Thanks for the hint! But to be honest: It's Tom Apostol's proof that is really a perfect "proof without words" - without much explanation you immeadiately see, why infinite descent would be possible
                – Hans Stricker
                Sep 4 at 15:37










              • @HansStricker I agree. That is in fact the proof I vaguely remembered when I searched for the one I eventually posted. You should provide another answer to this question.
                – Ethan Bolker
                Sep 4 at 16:01














              up vote
              2
              down vote













              Not a direct answer to your question - but perhaps what you are looking for.



              enter image description here




              Assuming $a^2=2b^2$, with positive integers $a$ and $b$, one can
              easily establish that also $(2b−a)^2=2(a−b)^2$. The impossibility of
              the former lies in the fact that $a>2b−a$ (which shows that we are
              just at the beginning of an infinite descent.) This is one of the
              proofs of the irrationality of $sqrt2$.




              https://www.cut-the-knot.org/proofs/GraphicalSqRoots.shtml






              share|cite|improve this answer




















              • To be a "proof without words" this would require that you can literally "see" that $(2b-a)^2 = 2(a-b)^2$ which is the content of the carpets theorem. But I found this quite hard - and the proof is involved.
                – Hans Stricker
                Sep 4 at 15:13










              • Thanks for the hint! But to be honest: It's Tom Apostol's proof that is really a perfect "proof without words" - without much explanation you immeadiately see, why infinite descent would be possible
                – Hans Stricker
                Sep 4 at 15:37










              • @HansStricker I agree. That is in fact the proof I vaguely remembered when I searched for the one I eventually posted. You should provide another answer to this question.
                – Ethan Bolker
                Sep 4 at 16:01












              up vote
              2
              down vote










              up vote
              2
              down vote









              Not a direct answer to your question - but perhaps what you are looking for.



              enter image description here




              Assuming $a^2=2b^2$, with positive integers $a$ and $b$, one can
              easily establish that also $(2b−a)^2=2(a−b)^2$. The impossibility of
              the former lies in the fact that $a>2b−a$ (which shows that we are
              just at the beginning of an infinite descent.) This is one of the
              proofs of the irrationality of $sqrt2$.




              https://www.cut-the-knot.org/proofs/GraphicalSqRoots.shtml






              share|cite|improve this answer












              Not a direct answer to your question - but perhaps what you are looking for.



              enter image description here




              Assuming $a^2=2b^2$, with positive integers $a$ and $b$, one can
              easily establish that also $(2b−a)^2=2(a−b)^2$. The impossibility of
              the former lies in the fact that $a>2b−a$ (which shows that we are
              just at the beginning of an infinite descent.) This is one of the
              proofs of the irrationality of $sqrt2$.




              https://www.cut-the-knot.org/proofs/GraphicalSqRoots.shtml







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Sep 4 at 14:18









              Ethan Bolker

              36.5k54299




              36.5k54299











              • To be a "proof without words" this would require that you can literally "see" that $(2b-a)^2 = 2(a-b)^2$ which is the content of the carpets theorem. But I found this quite hard - and the proof is involved.
                – Hans Stricker
                Sep 4 at 15:13










              • Thanks for the hint! But to be honest: It's Tom Apostol's proof that is really a perfect "proof without words" - without much explanation you immeadiately see, why infinite descent would be possible
                – Hans Stricker
                Sep 4 at 15:37










              • @HansStricker I agree. That is in fact the proof I vaguely remembered when I searched for the one I eventually posted. You should provide another answer to this question.
                – Ethan Bolker
                Sep 4 at 16:01
















              • To be a "proof without words" this would require that you can literally "see" that $(2b-a)^2 = 2(a-b)^2$ which is the content of the carpets theorem. But I found this quite hard - and the proof is involved.
                – Hans Stricker
                Sep 4 at 15:13










              • Thanks for the hint! But to be honest: It's Tom Apostol's proof that is really a perfect "proof without words" - without much explanation you immeadiately see, why infinite descent would be possible
                – Hans Stricker
                Sep 4 at 15:37










              • @HansStricker I agree. That is in fact the proof I vaguely remembered when I searched for the one I eventually posted. You should provide another answer to this question.
                – Ethan Bolker
                Sep 4 at 16:01















              To be a "proof without words" this would require that you can literally "see" that $(2b-a)^2 = 2(a-b)^2$ which is the content of the carpets theorem. But I found this quite hard - and the proof is involved.
              – Hans Stricker
              Sep 4 at 15:13




              To be a "proof without words" this would require that you can literally "see" that $(2b-a)^2 = 2(a-b)^2$ which is the content of the carpets theorem. But I found this quite hard - and the proof is involved.
              – Hans Stricker
              Sep 4 at 15:13












              Thanks for the hint! But to be honest: It's Tom Apostol's proof that is really a perfect "proof without words" - without much explanation you immeadiately see, why infinite descent would be possible
              – Hans Stricker
              Sep 4 at 15:37




              Thanks for the hint! But to be honest: It's Tom Apostol's proof that is really a perfect "proof without words" - without much explanation you immeadiately see, why infinite descent would be possible
              – Hans Stricker
              Sep 4 at 15:37












              @HansStricker I agree. That is in fact the proof I vaguely remembered when I searched for the one I eventually posted. You should provide another answer to this question.
              – Ethan Bolker
              Sep 4 at 16:01




              @HansStricker I agree. That is in fact the proof I vaguely remembered when I searched for the one I eventually posted. You should provide another answer to this question.
              – Ethan Bolker
              Sep 4 at 16:01










              up vote
              0
              down vote













              Following Ethan's advice I want to draw your attention to Apostol's proof of the irrationality of $sqrt2$ which is as visual as a proof can be (in my opinion): One can literally see at a glance that it proves what it's supposed to prove: the impossibility of a isosceles triangle with integer side length (by infinite descent):



              enter image description here



              Note that it's not a proof completely without words. It helps a lot to read the comments of the author:




              Each line segment in the diagram has integer length, and the three
              segments with double tick marks have equal lengths. (Two of them are
              tangents to the circle from the same point.) Therefore the smaller
              isosceles right triangle with hypotenuse on the horizontal base also
              has integer sides.




              But through own thinking one could come up with this by oneself (having in mind what's to be proved).






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                Following Ethan's advice I want to draw your attention to Apostol's proof of the irrationality of $sqrt2$ which is as visual as a proof can be (in my opinion): One can literally see at a glance that it proves what it's supposed to prove: the impossibility of a isosceles triangle with integer side length (by infinite descent):



                enter image description here



                Note that it's not a proof completely without words. It helps a lot to read the comments of the author:




                Each line segment in the diagram has integer length, and the three
                segments with double tick marks have equal lengths. (Two of them are
                tangents to the circle from the same point.) Therefore the smaller
                isosceles right triangle with hypotenuse on the horizontal base also
                has integer sides.




                But through own thinking one could come up with this by oneself (having in mind what's to be proved).






                share|cite|improve this answer






















                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  Following Ethan's advice I want to draw your attention to Apostol's proof of the irrationality of $sqrt2$ which is as visual as a proof can be (in my opinion): One can literally see at a glance that it proves what it's supposed to prove: the impossibility of a isosceles triangle with integer side length (by infinite descent):



                  enter image description here



                  Note that it's not a proof completely without words. It helps a lot to read the comments of the author:




                  Each line segment in the diagram has integer length, and the three
                  segments with double tick marks have equal lengths. (Two of them are
                  tangents to the circle from the same point.) Therefore the smaller
                  isosceles right triangle with hypotenuse on the horizontal base also
                  has integer sides.




                  But through own thinking one could come up with this by oneself (having in mind what's to be proved).






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  Following Ethan's advice I want to draw your attention to Apostol's proof of the irrationality of $sqrt2$ which is as visual as a proof can be (in my opinion): One can literally see at a glance that it proves what it's supposed to prove: the impossibility of a isosceles triangle with integer side length (by infinite descent):



                  enter image description here



                  Note that it's not a proof completely without words. It helps a lot to read the comments of the author:




                  Each line segment in the diagram has integer length, and the three
                  segments with double tick marks have equal lengths. (Two of them are
                  tangents to the circle from the same point.) Therefore the smaller
                  isosceles right triangle with hypotenuse on the horizontal base also
                  has integer sides.




                  But through own thinking one could come up with this by oneself (having in mind what's to be proved).







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Sep 5 at 7:52









                  Hans Stricker

                  4,51313676




                  4,51313676



























                       

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