integration - bartle theorem 5.3 - absolute integrability

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
3
down vote

favorite













Theorem 5.3: A measurable function $f$ belongs to $L$ if and only if $|f| $ belongs to $L$.





Definitions: $L = L(X,mathbfX, mu)$ of integrable functions consists of all real-valued $mathbfX$-measurable functions $f$ defined on $X$, such that both the positive and negative parts $f^+, f^-$ of $f$ have finite integrals with respect to $mu$.



A function $f: X rightarrow mathbbR$ is $mathbfX$-measurable if $f^-1((alpha, infty)) $ are measurable sets for all real $alpha$.



If $f: X rightarrow mathbbR^+$ is $mathbfX$-measurable we define the integral with respect to $mu$ to be the extended real number
$$ int f , d mu = sup int phi , d mu ,$$
where supremum is taken over all simple functions $phi: X rightarrow mathbbR$ such that $ 0 le phi le f $. (The integral of simple function is then the usual one with $mu$.)




What I don't see: $|f| in L Rightarrow f in L$



We have $|f|^+ = f^+ + f^- , |f|^- = 0$ have finite integrals. But this does even not imply that $f^+$ and $f^-$ are $mathbfX$- measurable. What am I missing?




EDIT: As given in the counter example by the comments, I believe the theorem should be reformulated as,




Let $f$ be a measurable function, then $f in L Leftrightarrow |f| in L$




Is this correct?










share|cite|improve this question



























    up vote
    3
    down vote

    favorite













    Theorem 5.3: A measurable function $f$ belongs to $L$ if and only if $|f| $ belongs to $L$.





    Definitions: $L = L(X,mathbfX, mu)$ of integrable functions consists of all real-valued $mathbfX$-measurable functions $f$ defined on $X$, such that both the positive and negative parts $f^+, f^-$ of $f$ have finite integrals with respect to $mu$.



    A function $f: X rightarrow mathbbR$ is $mathbfX$-measurable if $f^-1((alpha, infty)) $ are measurable sets for all real $alpha$.



    If $f: X rightarrow mathbbR^+$ is $mathbfX$-measurable we define the integral with respect to $mu$ to be the extended real number
    $$ int f , d mu = sup int phi , d mu ,$$
    where supremum is taken over all simple functions $phi: X rightarrow mathbbR$ such that $ 0 le phi le f $. (The integral of simple function is then the usual one with $mu$.)




    What I don't see: $|f| in L Rightarrow f in L$



    We have $|f|^+ = f^+ + f^- , |f|^- = 0$ have finite integrals. But this does even not imply that $f^+$ and $f^-$ are $mathbfX$- measurable. What am I missing?




    EDIT: As given in the counter example by the comments, I believe the theorem should be reformulated as,




    Let $f$ be a measurable function, then $f in L Leftrightarrow |f| in L$




    Is this correct?










    share|cite|improve this question

























      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite












      Theorem 5.3: A measurable function $f$ belongs to $L$ if and only if $|f| $ belongs to $L$.





      Definitions: $L = L(X,mathbfX, mu)$ of integrable functions consists of all real-valued $mathbfX$-measurable functions $f$ defined on $X$, such that both the positive and negative parts $f^+, f^-$ of $f$ have finite integrals with respect to $mu$.



      A function $f: X rightarrow mathbbR$ is $mathbfX$-measurable if $f^-1((alpha, infty)) $ are measurable sets for all real $alpha$.



      If $f: X rightarrow mathbbR^+$ is $mathbfX$-measurable we define the integral with respect to $mu$ to be the extended real number
      $$ int f , d mu = sup int phi , d mu ,$$
      where supremum is taken over all simple functions $phi: X rightarrow mathbbR$ such that $ 0 le phi le f $. (The integral of simple function is then the usual one with $mu$.)




      What I don't see: $|f| in L Rightarrow f in L$



      We have $|f|^+ = f^+ + f^- , |f|^- = 0$ have finite integrals. But this does even not imply that $f^+$ and $f^-$ are $mathbfX$- measurable. What am I missing?




      EDIT: As given in the counter example by the comments, I believe the theorem should be reformulated as,




      Let $f$ be a measurable function, then $f in L Leftrightarrow |f| in L$




      Is this correct?










      share|cite|improve this question
















      Theorem 5.3: A measurable function $f$ belongs to $L$ if and only if $|f| $ belongs to $L$.





      Definitions: $L = L(X,mathbfX, mu)$ of integrable functions consists of all real-valued $mathbfX$-measurable functions $f$ defined on $X$, such that both the positive and negative parts $f^+, f^-$ of $f$ have finite integrals with respect to $mu$.



      A function $f: X rightarrow mathbbR$ is $mathbfX$-measurable if $f^-1((alpha, infty)) $ are measurable sets for all real $alpha$.



      If $f: X rightarrow mathbbR^+$ is $mathbfX$-measurable we define the integral with respect to $mu$ to be the extended real number
      $$ int f , d mu = sup int phi , d mu ,$$
      where supremum is taken over all simple functions $phi: X rightarrow mathbbR$ such that $ 0 le phi le f $. (The integral of simple function is then the usual one with $mu$.)




      What I don't see: $|f| in L Rightarrow f in L$



      We have $|f|^+ = f^+ + f^- , |f|^- = 0$ have finite integrals. But this does even not imply that $f^+$ and $f^-$ are $mathbfX$- measurable. What am I missing?




      EDIT: As given in the counter example by the comments, I believe the theorem should be reformulated as,




      Let $f$ be a measurable function, then $f in L Leftrightarrow |f| in L$




      Is this correct?







      integration measure-theory proof-verification indefinite-integrals proof-explanation






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Dec 26 '16 at 5:11

























      asked Dec 26 '16 at 4:26









      CL.

      1,9822822




      1,9822822




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          1
          down vote













          This is not true, an easy counterexample is to let $A$ be a non-measurable subset of $[0,1]$ and define $$f : [0,1] rightarrow mathbbR, ; ; f(x) = begincases 1: & x in A; \ -1: & x notin A endcases.$$






          share|cite|improve this answer



























            up vote
            1
            down vote













            The definition of integrable should include that $f$ is measurable. Otherwise, take $1-2,chi_E$ for any non-measurable set $E$, and its absolute value will be $1$.






            share|cite|improve this answer




















            • Thanks, I edited. Also, it seems like the original theorem should be formulated in the new way I edited - does that seem right?
              – CL.
              Dec 26 '16 at 5:12











            • Now I see that you already had measurability as a condition in $L $. The theorem is simply $fin Liff |f|in L $.
              – Martin Argerami
              Dec 26 '16 at 7:20

















            up vote
            0
            down vote













            $vert f vert = f^+ + f^-$. Then if $vert f vert$ belongs to $L$ it means that both $f^+$ and $f^-$ have finite integrals because we already know that the integral is linear (and the integral is defined over every measurable function and $f^+,f^-$ are measurable). Hence, if $int f^+dmu$ or $int f^-dmu$ were infinite, it wouldn't be the case that $int vert f vert dmu$ is finite.






            share|cite|improve this answer




















            • you also can see that $vert int f dmu vert leq int f⁺ dmu + int f^- dmu = int vert f vert dmu$. So if the integral on the right is finite, so is the other on the left.
              – Robson
              Sep 11 at 22:42










            Your Answer





            StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
            return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
            StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
            StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
            );
            );
            , "mathjax-editing");

            StackExchange.ready(function()
            var channelOptions =
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "69"
            ;
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
            createEditor();
            );

            else
            createEditor();

            );

            function createEditor()
            StackExchange.prepareEditor(
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            convertImagesToLinks: true,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: 10,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader:
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            ,
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            );



            );













             

            draft saved


            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2072107%2fintegration-bartle-theorem-5-3-absolute-integrability%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest






























            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes








            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes








            up vote
            1
            down vote













            This is not true, an easy counterexample is to let $A$ be a non-measurable subset of $[0,1]$ and define $$f : [0,1] rightarrow mathbbR, ; ; f(x) = begincases 1: & x in A; \ -1: & x notin A endcases.$$






            share|cite|improve this answer
























              up vote
              1
              down vote













              This is not true, an easy counterexample is to let $A$ be a non-measurable subset of $[0,1]$ and define $$f : [0,1] rightarrow mathbbR, ; ; f(x) = begincases 1: & x in A; \ -1: & x notin A endcases.$$






              share|cite|improve this answer






















                up vote
                1
                down vote










                up vote
                1
                down vote









                This is not true, an easy counterexample is to let $A$ be a non-measurable subset of $[0,1]$ and define $$f : [0,1] rightarrow mathbbR, ; ; f(x) = begincases 1: & x in A; \ -1: & x notin A endcases.$$






                share|cite|improve this answer












                This is not true, an easy counterexample is to let $A$ be a non-measurable subset of $[0,1]$ and define $$f : [0,1] rightarrow mathbbR, ; ; f(x) = begincases 1: & x in A; \ -1: & x notin A endcases.$$







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Dec 26 '16 at 4:41









                user399601

                1,578312




                1,578312




















                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote













                    The definition of integrable should include that $f$ is measurable. Otherwise, take $1-2,chi_E$ for any non-measurable set $E$, and its absolute value will be $1$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer




















                    • Thanks, I edited. Also, it seems like the original theorem should be formulated in the new way I edited - does that seem right?
                      – CL.
                      Dec 26 '16 at 5:12











                    • Now I see that you already had measurability as a condition in $L $. The theorem is simply $fin Liff |f|in L $.
                      – Martin Argerami
                      Dec 26 '16 at 7:20














                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote













                    The definition of integrable should include that $f$ is measurable. Otherwise, take $1-2,chi_E$ for any non-measurable set $E$, and its absolute value will be $1$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer




















                    • Thanks, I edited. Also, it seems like the original theorem should be formulated in the new way I edited - does that seem right?
                      – CL.
                      Dec 26 '16 at 5:12











                    • Now I see that you already had measurability as a condition in $L $. The theorem is simply $fin Liff |f|in L $.
                      – Martin Argerami
                      Dec 26 '16 at 7:20












                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote









                    The definition of integrable should include that $f$ is measurable. Otherwise, take $1-2,chi_E$ for any non-measurable set $E$, and its absolute value will be $1$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    The definition of integrable should include that $f$ is measurable. Otherwise, take $1-2,chi_E$ for any non-measurable set $E$, and its absolute value will be $1$.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Dec 26 '16 at 4:42









                    Martin Argerami

                    120k1072169




                    120k1072169











                    • Thanks, I edited. Also, it seems like the original theorem should be formulated in the new way I edited - does that seem right?
                      – CL.
                      Dec 26 '16 at 5:12











                    • Now I see that you already had measurability as a condition in $L $. The theorem is simply $fin Liff |f|in L $.
                      – Martin Argerami
                      Dec 26 '16 at 7:20
















                    • Thanks, I edited. Also, it seems like the original theorem should be formulated in the new way I edited - does that seem right?
                      – CL.
                      Dec 26 '16 at 5:12











                    • Now I see that you already had measurability as a condition in $L $. The theorem is simply $fin Liff |f|in L $.
                      – Martin Argerami
                      Dec 26 '16 at 7:20















                    Thanks, I edited. Also, it seems like the original theorem should be formulated in the new way I edited - does that seem right?
                    – CL.
                    Dec 26 '16 at 5:12





                    Thanks, I edited. Also, it seems like the original theorem should be formulated in the new way I edited - does that seem right?
                    – CL.
                    Dec 26 '16 at 5:12













                    Now I see that you already had measurability as a condition in $L $. The theorem is simply $fin Liff |f|in L $.
                    – Martin Argerami
                    Dec 26 '16 at 7:20




                    Now I see that you already had measurability as a condition in $L $. The theorem is simply $fin Liff |f|in L $.
                    – Martin Argerami
                    Dec 26 '16 at 7:20










                    up vote
                    0
                    down vote













                    $vert f vert = f^+ + f^-$. Then if $vert f vert$ belongs to $L$ it means that both $f^+$ and $f^-$ have finite integrals because we already know that the integral is linear (and the integral is defined over every measurable function and $f^+,f^-$ are measurable). Hence, if $int f^+dmu$ or $int f^-dmu$ were infinite, it wouldn't be the case that $int vert f vert dmu$ is finite.






                    share|cite|improve this answer




















                    • you also can see that $vert int f dmu vert leq int f⁺ dmu + int f^- dmu = int vert f vert dmu$. So if the integral on the right is finite, so is the other on the left.
                      – Robson
                      Sep 11 at 22:42














                    up vote
                    0
                    down vote













                    $vert f vert = f^+ + f^-$. Then if $vert f vert$ belongs to $L$ it means that both $f^+$ and $f^-$ have finite integrals because we already know that the integral is linear (and the integral is defined over every measurable function and $f^+,f^-$ are measurable). Hence, if $int f^+dmu$ or $int f^-dmu$ were infinite, it wouldn't be the case that $int vert f vert dmu$ is finite.






                    share|cite|improve this answer




















                    • you also can see that $vert int f dmu vert leq int f⁺ dmu + int f^- dmu = int vert f vert dmu$. So if the integral on the right is finite, so is the other on the left.
                      – Robson
                      Sep 11 at 22:42












                    up vote
                    0
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    0
                    down vote









                    $vert f vert = f^+ + f^-$. Then if $vert f vert$ belongs to $L$ it means that both $f^+$ and $f^-$ have finite integrals because we already know that the integral is linear (and the integral is defined over every measurable function and $f^+,f^-$ are measurable). Hence, if $int f^+dmu$ or $int f^-dmu$ were infinite, it wouldn't be the case that $int vert f vert dmu$ is finite.






                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    $vert f vert = f^+ + f^-$. Then if $vert f vert$ belongs to $L$ it means that both $f^+$ and $f^-$ have finite integrals because we already know that the integral is linear (and the integral is defined over every measurable function and $f^+,f^-$ are measurable). Hence, if $int f^+dmu$ or $int f^-dmu$ were infinite, it wouldn't be the case that $int vert f vert dmu$ is finite.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Sep 10 at 23:58









                    Robson

                    570221




                    570221











                    • you also can see that $vert int f dmu vert leq int f⁺ dmu + int f^- dmu = int vert f vert dmu$. So if the integral on the right is finite, so is the other on the left.
                      – Robson
                      Sep 11 at 22:42
















                    • you also can see that $vert int f dmu vert leq int f⁺ dmu + int f^- dmu = int vert f vert dmu$. So if the integral on the right is finite, so is the other on the left.
                      – Robson
                      Sep 11 at 22:42















                    you also can see that $vert int f dmu vert leq int f⁺ dmu + int f^- dmu = int vert f vert dmu$. So if the integral on the right is finite, so is the other on the left.
                    – Robson
                    Sep 11 at 22:42




                    you also can see that $vert int f dmu vert leq int f⁺ dmu + int f^- dmu = int vert f vert dmu$. So if the integral on the right is finite, so is the other on the left.
                    – Robson
                    Sep 11 at 22:42

















                     

                    draft saved


                    draft discarded















































                     


                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function ()
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2072107%2fintegration-bartle-theorem-5-3-absolute-integrability%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                    );

                    Post as a guest













































































                    這個網誌中的熱門文章

                    Is there any way to eliminate the singular point to solve this integral by hand or by approximations?

                    Why am i infinitely getting the same tweet with the Twitter Search API?

                    Solve: $(3xy-2ay^2)dx+(x^2-2axy)dy=0$