Finding a certain entry in a matrix

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Can we find the entry $s_23$ of $S=H^3$ where $H=pmatrix2&-1&0\3&1&2\-1&1&1
$ without finding $S$. I know that $s_23$ is given by multiplying the second row of $H^2$ and the third coloumn of $H$ but it is dull. Thank you for any hints!










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    Can we find the entry $s_23$ of $S=H^3$ where $H=pmatrix2&-1&0\3&1&2\-1&1&1
    $ without finding $S$. I know that $s_23$ is given by multiplying the second row of $H^2$ and the third coloumn of $H$ but it is dull. Thank you for any hints!










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      up vote
      5
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      5
      down vote

      favorite











      Can we find the entry $s_23$ of $S=H^3$ where $H=pmatrix2&-1&0\3&1&2\-1&1&1
      $ without finding $S$. I know that $s_23$ is given by multiplying the second row of $H^2$ and the third coloumn of $H$ but it is dull. Thank you for any hints!










      share|cite|improve this question













      Can we find the entry $s_23$ of $S=H^3$ where $H=pmatrix2&-1&0\3&1&2\-1&1&1
      $ without finding $S$. I know that $s_23$ is given by multiplying the second row of $H^2$ and the third coloumn of $H$ but it is dull. Thank you for any hints!







      linear-algebra matrices






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      asked Sep 6 at 6:48









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          2 Answers
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          If you don't want to calculate $H^3$ or $H^2$, you can take the vector $v=beginpmatrix0&0&1endpmatrix^T$ and calculate $w=H cdot H cdot H cdot v = H cdot H cdot beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T$. The entry $s_23$ will be the second coordinate of $w$.



          You need 18 multiplications and 12 additions to calculate this. Calculating $H^2$ would need 27 multiplications and 18 additions. I don't know whether this is still too 'dull' for you ;)



          This works since $s_23$ is the $e_2$-component of the image of $e_3$ under $S$.



          Edit: Even less work is needed by a comment of celtschk. We may extract the $e_2$-component of $H H beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T$ by multiplying with $beginpmatrix0&1&0endpmatrix$ from the left. Therefore, we can calculate $$s_23 = beginpmatrix0&1&0endpmatrix HH beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T = beginpmatrix3&1&1endpmatrix H beginpmatrix0\2\1endpmatrix$$ with 12 multiplications and 8 additions.






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          • 2




            Even less work is needed: $$pmatrix3&1&2cdot Hcdotpmatrix0\2\1.$$ 12 multiplications and 8 additions.
            – celtschk
            Sep 6 at 15:40










          • @celtschk You are totally right. I'll edit this
            – Babelfish
            Sep 6 at 15:58










          • How are you counting to get the $12$ multiplications and $8$ additions?
            – Jose Brox
            Sep 7 at 11:00










          • Multiplying $H$ with the left vector yields $3times 3$ multiplications. We have to add two of such products to get the entries of the result, which yields $3times 2 $ additions. Multiplying the two remaining vectors yields 3 multiplications and two additional additions. Of course, if we don't count the multiplications with $0$ at the beginning, it's only $9$ multiplications and $6$ additions.
            – Babelfish
            Sep 7 at 11:13

















          up vote
          7
          down vote













          The characteristic polynomial of $H$ is $$X^3-4X^2+6X-3.$$



          Therefore $$H^3=4H^2-6H+3I=H(4H-6I)+3I.$$



          The element $(H^3)_23$ is then the product of the second row of $H$ times the third column of $4H-6I$ (plus nothing since $3I$ has element $(2,3)$ equal to $0$).



          We need $18$ products and $12$ additions to get the polynomial, plus the expanding of terms. After that we need 1 addition (from the -6I), 3 multiplications (from the 4H), plus 3 multiplications and 2 additions from the second row-third column product.



          But hey, this way is not dull!






          share|cite|improve this answer


















          • 1




            Definitely not dull. I like creative usage of Cayley Hamilton! +1
            – Babelfish
            Sep 6 at 8:16










          • Is $A=H$? If so, you may want to consistently use $H$ throughout.
            – Meni Rosenfeld
            Sep 6 at 12:52










          • @MeniRosenfeld Yes, of course. Gonna correct it. Thanks!
            – Jose Brox
            Sep 6 at 12:58










          Your Answer




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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes








          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          9
          down vote



          accepted










          If you don't want to calculate $H^3$ or $H^2$, you can take the vector $v=beginpmatrix0&0&1endpmatrix^T$ and calculate $w=H cdot H cdot H cdot v = H cdot H cdot beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T$. The entry $s_23$ will be the second coordinate of $w$.



          You need 18 multiplications and 12 additions to calculate this. Calculating $H^2$ would need 27 multiplications and 18 additions. I don't know whether this is still too 'dull' for you ;)



          This works since $s_23$ is the $e_2$-component of the image of $e_3$ under $S$.



          Edit: Even less work is needed by a comment of celtschk. We may extract the $e_2$-component of $H H beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T$ by multiplying with $beginpmatrix0&1&0endpmatrix$ from the left. Therefore, we can calculate $$s_23 = beginpmatrix0&1&0endpmatrix HH beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T = beginpmatrix3&1&1endpmatrix H beginpmatrix0\2\1endpmatrix$$ with 12 multiplications and 8 additions.






          share|cite|improve this answer


















          • 2




            Even less work is needed: $$pmatrix3&1&2cdot Hcdotpmatrix0\2\1.$$ 12 multiplications and 8 additions.
            – celtschk
            Sep 6 at 15:40










          • @celtschk You are totally right. I'll edit this
            – Babelfish
            Sep 6 at 15:58










          • How are you counting to get the $12$ multiplications and $8$ additions?
            – Jose Brox
            Sep 7 at 11:00










          • Multiplying $H$ with the left vector yields $3times 3$ multiplications. We have to add two of such products to get the entries of the result, which yields $3times 2 $ additions. Multiplying the two remaining vectors yields 3 multiplications and two additional additions. Of course, if we don't count the multiplications with $0$ at the beginning, it's only $9$ multiplications and $6$ additions.
            – Babelfish
            Sep 7 at 11:13














          up vote
          9
          down vote



          accepted










          If you don't want to calculate $H^3$ or $H^2$, you can take the vector $v=beginpmatrix0&0&1endpmatrix^T$ and calculate $w=H cdot H cdot H cdot v = H cdot H cdot beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T$. The entry $s_23$ will be the second coordinate of $w$.



          You need 18 multiplications and 12 additions to calculate this. Calculating $H^2$ would need 27 multiplications and 18 additions. I don't know whether this is still too 'dull' for you ;)



          This works since $s_23$ is the $e_2$-component of the image of $e_3$ under $S$.



          Edit: Even less work is needed by a comment of celtschk. We may extract the $e_2$-component of $H H beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T$ by multiplying with $beginpmatrix0&1&0endpmatrix$ from the left. Therefore, we can calculate $$s_23 = beginpmatrix0&1&0endpmatrix HH beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T = beginpmatrix3&1&1endpmatrix H beginpmatrix0\2\1endpmatrix$$ with 12 multiplications and 8 additions.






          share|cite|improve this answer


















          • 2




            Even less work is needed: $$pmatrix3&1&2cdot Hcdotpmatrix0\2\1.$$ 12 multiplications and 8 additions.
            – celtschk
            Sep 6 at 15:40










          • @celtschk You are totally right. I'll edit this
            – Babelfish
            Sep 6 at 15:58










          • How are you counting to get the $12$ multiplications and $8$ additions?
            – Jose Brox
            Sep 7 at 11:00










          • Multiplying $H$ with the left vector yields $3times 3$ multiplications. We have to add two of such products to get the entries of the result, which yields $3times 2 $ additions. Multiplying the two remaining vectors yields 3 multiplications and two additional additions. Of course, if we don't count the multiplications with $0$ at the beginning, it's only $9$ multiplications and $6$ additions.
            – Babelfish
            Sep 7 at 11:13












          up vote
          9
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          9
          down vote



          accepted






          If you don't want to calculate $H^3$ or $H^2$, you can take the vector $v=beginpmatrix0&0&1endpmatrix^T$ and calculate $w=H cdot H cdot H cdot v = H cdot H cdot beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T$. The entry $s_23$ will be the second coordinate of $w$.



          You need 18 multiplications and 12 additions to calculate this. Calculating $H^2$ would need 27 multiplications and 18 additions. I don't know whether this is still too 'dull' for you ;)



          This works since $s_23$ is the $e_2$-component of the image of $e_3$ under $S$.



          Edit: Even less work is needed by a comment of celtschk. We may extract the $e_2$-component of $H H beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T$ by multiplying with $beginpmatrix0&1&0endpmatrix$ from the left. Therefore, we can calculate $$s_23 = beginpmatrix0&1&0endpmatrix HH beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T = beginpmatrix3&1&1endpmatrix H beginpmatrix0\2\1endpmatrix$$ with 12 multiplications and 8 additions.






          share|cite|improve this answer














          If you don't want to calculate $H^3$ or $H^2$, you can take the vector $v=beginpmatrix0&0&1endpmatrix^T$ and calculate $w=H cdot H cdot H cdot v = H cdot H cdot beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T$. The entry $s_23$ will be the second coordinate of $w$.



          You need 18 multiplications and 12 additions to calculate this. Calculating $H^2$ would need 27 multiplications and 18 additions. I don't know whether this is still too 'dull' for you ;)



          This works since $s_23$ is the $e_2$-component of the image of $e_3$ under $S$.



          Edit: Even less work is needed by a comment of celtschk. We may extract the $e_2$-component of $H H beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T$ by multiplying with $beginpmatrix0&1&0endpmatrix$ from the left. Therefore, we can calculate $$s_23 = beginpmatrix0&1&0endpmatrix HH beginpmatrix0&2&1endpmatrix^T = beginpmatrix3&1&1endpmatrix H beginpmatrix0\2\1endpmatrix$$ with 12 multiplications and 8 additions.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Sep 6 at 16:02

























          answered Sep 6 at 7:18









          Babelfish

          1,004115




          1,004115







          • 2




            Even less work is needed: $$pmatrix3&1&2cdot Hcdotpmatrix0\2\1.$$ 12 multiplications and 8 additions.
            – celtschk
            Sep 6 at 15:40










          • @celtschk You are totally right. I'll edit this
            – Babelfish
            Sep 6 at 15:58










          • How are you counting to get the $12$ multiplications and $8$ additions?
            – Jose Brox
            Sep 7 at 11:00










          • Multiplying $H$ with the left vector yields $3times 3$ multiplications. We have to add two of such products to get the entries of the result, which yields $3times 2 $ additions. Multiplying the two remaining vectors yields 3 multiplications and two additional additions. Of course, if we don't count the multiplications with $0$ at the beginning, it's only $9$ multiplications and $6$ additions.
            – Babelfish
            Sep 7 at 11:13












          • 2




            Even less work is needed: $$pmatrix3&1&2cdot Hcdotpmatrix0\2\1.$$ 12 multiplications and 8 additions.
            – celtschk
            Sep 6 at 15:40










          • @celtschk You are totally right. I'll edit this
            – Babelfish
            Sep 6 at 15:58










          • How are you counting to get the $12$ multiplications and $8$ additions?
            – Jose Brox
            Sep 7 at 11:00










          • Multiplying $H$ with the left vector yields $3times 3$ multiplications. We have to add two of such products to get the entries of the result, which yields $3times 2 $ additions. Multiplying the two remaining vectors yields 3 multiplications and two additional additions. Of course, if we don't count the multiplications with $0$ at the beginning, it's only $9$ multiplications and $6$ additions.
            – Babelfish
            Sep 7 at 11:13







          2




          2




          Even less work is needed: $$pmatrix3&1&2cdot Hcdotpmatrix0\2\1.$$ 12 multiplications and 8 additions.
          – celtschk
          Sep 6 at 15:40




          Even less work is needed: $$pmatrix3&1&2cdot Hcdotpmatrix0\2\1.$$ 12 multiplications and 8 additions.
          – celtschk
          Sep 6 at 15:40












          @celtschk You are totally right. I'll edit this
          – Babelfish
          Sep 6 at 15:58




          @celtschk You are totally right. I'll edit this
          – Babelfish
          Sep 6 at 15:58












          How are you counting to get the $12$ multiplications and $8$ additions?
          – Jose Brox
          Sep 7 at 11:00




          How are you counting to get the $12$ multiplications and $8$ additions?
          – Jose Brox
          Sep 7 at 11:00












          Multiplying $H$ with the left vector yields $3times 3$ multiplications. We have to add two of such products to get the entries of the result, which yields $3times 2 $ additions. Multiplying the two remaining vectors yields 3 multiplications and two additional additions. Of course, if we don't count the multiplications with $0$ at the beginning, it's only $9$ multiplications and $6$ additions.
          – Babelfish
          Sep 7 at 11:13




          Multiplying $H$ with the left vector yields $3times 3$ multiplications. We have to add two of such products to get the entries of the result, which yields $3times 2 $ additions. Multiplying the two remaining vectors yields 3 multiplications and two additional additions. Of course, if we don't count the multiplications with $0$ at the beginning, it's only $9$ multiplications and $6$ additions.
          – Babelfish
          Sep 7 at 11:13










          up vote
          7
          down vote













          The characteristic polynomial of $H$ is $$X^3-4X^2+6X-3.$$



          Therefore $$H^3=4H^2-6H+3I=H(4H-6I)+3I.$$



          The element $(H^3)_23$ is then the product of the second row of $H$ times the third column of $4H-6I$ (plus nothing since $3I$ has element $(2,3)$ equal to $0$).



          We need $18$ products and $12$ additions to get the polynomial, plus the expanding of terms. After that we need 1 addition (from the -6I), 3 multiplications (from the 4H), plus 3 multiplications and 2 additions from the second row-third column product.



          But hey, this way is not dull!






          share|cite|improve this answer


















          • 1




            Definitely not dull. I like creative usage of Cayley Hamilton! +1
            – Babelfish
            Sep 6 at 8:16










          • Is $A=H$? If so, you may want to consistently use $H$ throughout.
            – Meni Rosenfeld
            Sep 6 at 12:52










          • @MeniRosenfeld Yes, of course. Gonna correct it. Thanks!
            – Jose Brox
            Sep 6 at 12:58














          up vote
          7
          down vote













          The characteristic polynomial of $H$ is $$X^3-4X^2+6X-3.$$



          Therefore $$H^3=4H^2-6H+3I=H(4H-6I)+3I.$$



          The element $(H^3)_23$ is then the product of the second row of $H$ times the third column of $4H-6I$ (plus nothing since $3I$ has element $(2,3)$ equal to $0$).



          We need $18$ products and $12$ additions to get the polynomial, plus the expanding of terms. After that we need 1 addition (from the -6I), 3 multiplications (from the 4H), plus 3 multiplications and 2 additions from the second row-third column product.



          But hey, this way is not dull!






          share|cite|improve this answer


















          • 1




            Definitely not dull. I like creative usage of Cayley Hamilton! +1
            – Babelfish
            Sep 6 at 8:16










          • Is $A=H$? If so, you may want to consistently use $H$ throughout.
            – Meni Rosenfeld
            Sep 6 at 12:52










          • @MeniRosenfeld Yes, of course. Gonna correct it. Thanks!
            – Jose Brox
            Sep 6 at 12:58












          up vote
          7
          down vote










          up vote
          7
          down vote









          The characteristic polynomial of $H$ is $$X^3-4X^2+6X-3.$$



          Therefore $$H^3=4H^2-6H+3I=H(4H-6I)+3I.$$



          The element $(H^3)_23$ is then the product of the second row of $H$ times the third column of $4H-6I$ (plus nothing since $3I$ has element $(2,3)$ equal to $0$).



          We need $18$ products and $12$ additions to get the polynomial, plus the expanding of terms. After that we need 1 addition (from the -6I), 3 multiplications (from the 4H), plus 3 multiplications and 2 additions from the second row-third column product.



          But hey, this way is not dull!






          share|cite|improve this answer














          The characteristic polynomial of $H$ is $$X^3-4X^2+6X-3.$$



          Therefore $$H^3=4H^2-6H+3I=H(4H-6I)+3I.$$



          The element $(H^3)_23$ is then the product of the second row of $H$ times the third column of $4H-6I$ (plus nothing since $3I$ has element $(2,3)$ equal to $0$).



          We need $18$ products and $12$ additions to get the polynomial, plus the expanding of terms. After that we need 1 addition (from the -6I), 3 multiplications (from the 4H), plus 3 multiplications and 2 additions from the second row-third column product.



          But hey, this way is not dull!







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Sep 6 at 12:59

























          answered Sep 6 at 8:11









          Jose Brox

          2,3631921




          2,3631921







          • 1




            Definitely not dull. I like creative usage of Cayley Hamilton! +1
            – Babelfish
            Sep 6 at 8:16










          • Is $A=H$? If so, you may want to consistently use $H$ throughout.
            – Meni Rosenfeld
            Sep 6 at 12:52










          • @MeniRosenfeld Yes, of course. Gonna correct it. Thanks!
            – Jose Brox
            Sep 6 at 12:58












          • 1




            Definitely not dull. I like creative usage of Cayley Hamilton! +1
            – Babelfish
            Sep 6 at 8:16










          • Is $A=H$? If so, you may want to consistently use $H$ throughout.
            – Meni Rosenfeld
            Sep 6 at 12:52










          • @MeniRosenfeld Yes, of course. Gonna correct it. Thanks!
            – Jose Brox
            Sep 6 at 12:58







          1




          1




          Definitely not dull. I like creative usage of Cayley Hamilton! +1
          – Babelfish
          Sep 6 at 8:16




          Definitely not dull. I like creative usage of Cayley Hamilton! +1
          – Babelfish
          Sep 6 at 8:16












          Is $A=H$? If so, you may want to consistently use $H$ throughout.
          – Meni Rosenfeld
          Sep 6 at 12:52




          Is $A=H$? If so, you may want to consistently use $H$ throughout.
          – Meni Rosenfeld
          Sep 6 at 12:52












          @MeniRosenfeld Yes, of course. Gonna correct it. Thanks!
          – Jose Brox
          Sep 6 at 12:58




          @MeniRosenfeld Yes, of course. Gonna correct it. Thanks!
          – Jose Brox
          Sep 6 at 12:58

















           

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