How to deal with a player that ignores the DM [closed]

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I am running a campaign during which all the gods left for various reasons. Because of this, I changed up the Paladin and Cleric classes, by providing an alternate source of power for paladins which changes some of their mechanics, and by providing an alternative class in the form of alchemists for clerics.



At this point, nobody had a cleric or paladin player, and none of the players had shown interest in playing one up to this point, so I thought I would have no trouble.



Most of my players are fine with this and are looking forward to the new setting, but one of my players says that Clerics do not need gods to cast spells and won't quit arguing about it with me. I disagree, and I have tried reasoning with him, but nothing is working. Any suggestions on how to get them to stop arguing with me, or any other solutions?







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closed as unclear what you're asking by V2Blast, Szega, Sdjz, Tiggerous, KorvinStarmast Aug 17 at 13:43


Please clarify your specific problem or add additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell exactly what you're asking. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.










  • 5




    "Nothing is working" how? What does he disagree with? (...That said, he's not actually wrong about whether clerics necessarily need a god to have their abilities in general; see DMG p. 13, "Forces and Philosophies". However, it's up to the DM how that works in their specific game.)
    – V2Blast
    Aug 17 at 4:11







  • 3




    Are all the other players on-board with you changing the rules during the campaign, or just accepting it? Did you speak to everyone about the campaign being different now and if it is still the game they signed up for?
    – Luke
    Aug 17 at 4:42






  • 10




    In one of the comments on answers you mention that this is a running campaign that you changed halfway through. You might want to mention this in your question, because this is a huge difference, akin to selling somebody a car without any wheels, and selling them a car and then taking away the wheels when they want to drive it.
    – Theik
    Aug 17 at 7:09






  • 3




    In general, it'd help if you provided some more specifics about what you changed (or how dramatically you changed things), in what way the player refuses to accept your ruling, and what you've already tried in terms of communicating the change to him. This question is lacking a lot of context.
    – V2Blast
    Aug 17 at 8:02






  • 2




    What do you mean by "changed the cleric and paladin classes" in this case? That's an incredibly broad statement. What changed? Have you offered the player to swap classes to something else? This question lacks detail.
    – KorvinStarmast
    Aug 17 at 13:44
















up vote
3
down vote

favorite












I am running a campaign during which all the gods left for various reasons. Because of this, I changed up the Paladin and Cleric classes, by providing an alternate source of power for paladins which changes some of their mechanics, and by providing an alternative class in the form of alchemists for clerics.



At this point, nobody had a cleric or paladin player, and none of the players had shown interest in playing one up to this point, so I thought I would have no trouble.



Most of my players are fine with this and are looking forward to the new setting, but one of my players says that Clerics do not need gods to cast spells and won't quit arguing about it with me. I disagree, and I have tried reasoning with him, but nothing is working. Any suggestions on how to get them to stop arguing with me, or any other solutions?







share|improve this question














closed as unclear what you're asking by V2Blast, Szega, Sdjz, Tiggerous, KorvinStarmast Aug 17 at 13:43


Please clarify your specific problem or add additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell exactly what you're asking. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.










  • 5




    "Nothing is working" how? What does he disagree with? (...That said, he's not actually wrong about whether clerics necessarily need a god to have their abilities in general; see DMG p. 13, "Forces and Philosophies". However, it's up to the DM how that works in their specific game.)
    – V2Blast
    Aug 17 at 4:11







  • 3




    Are all the other players on-board with you changing the rules during the campaign, or just accepting it? Did you speak to everyone about the campaign being different now and if it is still the game they signed up for?
    – Luke
    Aug 17 at 4:42






  • 10




    In one of the comments on answers you mention that this is a running campaign that you changed halfway through. You might want to mention this in your question, because this is a huge difference, akin to selling somebody a car without any wheels, and selling them a car and then taking away the wheels when they want to drive it.
    – Theik
    Aug 17 at 7:09






  • 3




    In general, it'd help if you provided some more specifics about what you changed (or how dramatically you changed things), in what way the player refuses to accept your ruling, and what you've already tried in terms of communicating the change to him. This question is lacking a lot of context.
    – V2Blast
    Aug 17 at 8:02






  • 2




    What do you mean by "changed the cleric and paladin classes" in this case? That's an incredibly broad statement. What changed? Have you offered the player to swap classes to something else? This question lacks detail.
    – KorvinStarmast
    Aug 17 at 13:44












up vote
3
down vote

favorite









up vote
3
down vote

favorite











I am running a campaign during which all the gods left for various reasons. Because of this, I changed up the Paladin and Cleric classes, by providing an alternate source of power for paladins which changes some of their mechanics, and by providing an alternative class in the form of alchemists for clerics.



At this point, nobody had a cleric or paladin player, and none of the players had shown interest in playing one up to this point, so I thought I would have no trouble.



Most of my players are fine with this and are looking forward to the new setting, but one of my players says that Clerics do not need gods to cast spells and won't quit arguing about it with me. I disagree, and I have tried reasoning with him, but nothing is working. Any suggestions on how to get them to stop arguing with me, or any other solutions?







share|improve this question














I am running a campaign during which all the gods left for various reasons. Because of this, I changed up the Paladin and Cleric classes, by providing an alternate source of power for paladins which changes some of their mechanics, and by providing an alternative class in the form of alchemists for clerics.



At this point, nobody had a cleric or paladin player, and none of the players had shown interest in playing one up to this point, so I thought I would have no trouble.



Most of my players are fine with this and are looking forward to the new setting, but one of my players says that Clerics do not need gods to cast spells and won't quit arguing about it with me. I disagree, and I have tried reasoning with him, but nothing is working. Any suggestions on how to get them to stop arguing with me, or any other solutions?









share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Aug 21 at 1:37









mxyzplk♦

145k21356583




145k21356583










asked Aug 17 at 3:51









The electric emerald

23211




23211




closed as unclear what you're asking by V2Blast, Szega, Sdjz, Tiggerous, KorvinStarmast Aug 17 at 13:43


Please clarify your specific problem or add additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell exactly what you're asking. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.






closed as unclear what you're asking by V2Blast, Szega, Sdjz, Tiggerous, KorvinStarmast Aug 17 at 13:43


Please clarify your specific problem or add additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell exactly what you're asking. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.









  • 5




    "Nothing is working" how? What does he disagree with? (...That said, he's not actually wrong about whether clerics necessarily need a god to have their abilities in general; see DMG p. 13, "Forces and Philosophies". However, it's up to the DM how that works in their specific game.)
    – V2Blast
    Aug 17 at 4:11







  • 3




    Are all the other players on-board with you changing the rules during the campaign, or just accepting it? Did you speak to everyone about the campaign being different now and if it is still the game they signed up for?
    – Luke
    Aug 17 at 4:42






  • 10




    In one of the comments on answers you mention that this is a running campaign that you changed halfway through. You might want to mention this in your question, because this is a huge difference, akin to selling somebody a car without any wheels, and selling them a car and then taking away the wheels when they want to drive it.
    – Theik
    Aug 17 at 7:09






  • 3




    In general, it'd help if you provided some more specifics about what you changed (or how dramatically you changed things), in what way the player refuses to accept your ruling, and what you've already tried in terms of communicating the change to him. This question is lacking a lot of context.
    – V2Blast
    Aug 17 at 8:02






  • 2




    What do you mean by "changed the cleric and paladin classes" in this case? That's an incredibly broad statement. What changed? Have you offered the player to swap classes to something else? This question lacks detail.
    – KorvinStarmast
    Aug 17 at 13:44












  • 5




    "Nothing is working" how? What does he disagree with? (...That said, he's not actually wrong about whether clerics necessarily need a god to have their abilities in general; see DMG p. 13, "Forces and Philosophies". However, it's up to the DM how that works in their specific game.)
    – V2Blast
    Aug 17 at 4:11







  • 3




    Are all the other players on-board with you changing the rules during the campaign, or just accepting it? Did you speak to everyone about the campaign being different now and if it is still the game they signed up for?
    – Luke
    Aug 17 at 4:42






  • 10




    In one of the comments on answers you mention that this is a running campaign that you changed halfway through. You might want to mention this in your question, because this is a huge difference, akin to selling somebody a car without any wheels, and selling them a car and then taking away the wheels when they want to drive it.
    – Theik
    Aug 17 at 7:09






  • 3




    In general, it'd help if you provided some more specifics about what you changed (or how dramatically you changed things), in what way the player refuses to accept your ruling, and what you've already tried in terms of communicating the change to him. This question is lacking a lot of context.
    – V2Blast
    Aug 17 at 8:02






  • 2




    What do you mean by "changed the cleric and paladin classes" in this case? That's an incredibly broad statement. What changed? Have you offered the player to swap classes to something else? This question lacks detail.
    – KorvinStarmast
    Aug 17 at 13:44







5




5




"Nothing is working" how? What does he disagree with? (...That said, he's not actually wrong about whether clerics necessarily need a god to have their abilities in general; see DMG p. 13, "Forces and Philosophies". However, it's up to the DM how that works in their specific game.)
– V2Blast
Aug 17 at 4:11





"Nothing is working" how? What does he disagree with? (...That said, he's not actually wrong about whether clerics necessarily need a god to have their abilities in general; see DMG p. 13, "Forces and Philosophies". However, it's up to the DM how that works in their specific game.)
– V2Blast
Aug 17 at 4:11





3




3




Are all the other players on-board with you changing the rules during the campaign, or just accepting it? Did you speak to everyone about the campaign being different now and if it is still the game they signed up for?
– Luke
Aug 17 at 4:42




Are all the other players on-board with you changing the rules during the campaign, or just accepting it? Did you speak to everyone about the campaign being different now and if it is still the game they signed up for?
– Luke
Aug 17 at 4:42




10




10




In one of the comments on answers you mention that this is a running campaign that you changed halfway through. You might want to mention this in your question, because this is a huge difference, akin to selling somebody a car without any wheels, and selling them a car and then taking away the wheels when they want to drive it.
– Theik
Aug 17 at 7:09




In one of the comments on answers you mention that this is a running campaign that you changed halfway through. You might want to mention this in your question, because this is a huge difference, akin to selling somebody a car without any wheels, and selling them a car and then taking away the wheels when they want to drive it.
– Theik
Aug 17 at 7:09




3




3




In general, it'd help if you provided some more specifics about what you changed (or how dramatically you changed things), in what way the player refuses to accept your ruling, and what you've already tried in terms of communicating the change to him. This question is lacking a lot of context.
– V2Blast
Aug 17 at 8:02




In general, it'd help if you provided some more specifics about what you changed (or how dramatically you changed things), in what way the player refuses to accept your ruling, and what you've already tried in terms of communicating the change to him. This question is lacking a lot of context.
– V2Blast
Aug 17 at 8:02




2




2




What do you mean by "changed the cleric and paladin classes" in this case? That's an incredibly broad statement. What changed? Have you offered the player to swap classes to something else? This question lacks detail.
– KorvinStarmast
Aug 17 at 13:44




What do you mean by "changed the cleric and paladin classes" in this case? That's an incredibly broad statement. What changed? Have you offered the player to swap classes to something else? This question lacks detail.
– KorvinStarmast
Aug 17 at 13:44










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
35
down vote



accepted










“That is the premise of the campaign I’m running. If you don’t think that you can enjoy this campaign, you are welcome to join us for the next one.”






share|improve this answer




















  • It's more like a campaign that I modified after the PCs murdered the original plot, which complicates things as he is already in the campaign. He wants to multiclass. However, I still think your answer is useful and I will use a modified version to try and get him to stop.
    – The electric emerald
    Aug 17 at 3:59






  • 5




    @Theelectricemerald You might want to wait for a day before accepting an answer, it is common practice around here.
    – AntiDrondert
    Aug 17 at 6:56

















up vote
15
down vote














The spells of clerics, druids, paladins and rangers are called divine magic. The spell casters' access to the Weave is mediated by a divine power - gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin's oath. ("The Weave of Magic", PHB p. 205)



Not all divine powers need to be derived from deities. ("Forces and Philosophies", DMG p. 13)




As discussed here and here among other places, Gods not existing does not necessarily mean Clerics cant cast spells. So your player could be right going by the standard rules.



However, you as the DM have final say about the world, classes, spells etc. If Clerics simply don't exist in your world just plainly explain this to your player. Just as some races are not available in some campaign settings, Clerics and Paladins are may not be available in yours.
Before making major alterations to the standard rules though (such as completely removing one or more class options) you should consider if this is entirely necessary. How committed are you to your 'no clerics' rule? How much does your player want to play a Cleric? Would your player settle for another magical class? Is a compromise possible, such as providing a source for Cleric magic that isn't a god ?



You should also make sure any restrictions of your setting are clear to your players before you start your campaign.



You could stay firm to your ruling, and are in your right as a DM to do so, but consider, if you have a setting that is 100% to your liking but have no players to enjoy it with, what good is the setting?






share|improve this answer





























    up vote
    6
    down vote













    You kick them out or you work with them



    If you want to run a campaign that has no divine magic, that is fine, you're in your right to do that as a DM and if the player doesn't want to play in that campaign, they can leave. However, in one of the comments you mention that this was an already going campaign, in which case, changing core concepts halfway through is a pretty bad idea©.



    Imagine you are playing a Wizard, and you've been building up to level 6 the entire time in your Necromancy school, expecting some kickass skeletal guards to follow you around. Just when you hit level 6, your DM tells you "Yeah in my campaign, the dead can't come back to life, so you can't do that."



    That's perfectly valid from a "the DM decides the setting" perspective, but it's a huge blow to the player's character concept, and you've essentially just crippled that player's fun because you are making fundemental changes to the rules everybody plays by, without informing people at the time of character creation.



    So my suggestion would be to simply work with the player, the rules suggest that you don't need gods for divine spellcasting to work. Divine spells still work in places that don't allow you to contact your gods such as Ravenloft, so you can easily work something out with your player to allow them to play a Cleric like they imagined, without having gods in your setting.






    share|improve this answer





























      up vote
      -2
      down vote














      I have tried reasoning with him




      That's your first mistake! You're the GM, if you say they do, they do.



      However, as a side note, I would hope that you've compensated the Cleric class in some other way for their inability to cast spells. He may (justifiably) now feel that it's no fun playing his character, and if this is the case, it's definitely something you need to address.






      share|improve this answer



























        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes








        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes








        up vote
        35
        down vote



        accepted










        “That is the premise of the campaign I’m running. If you don’t think that you can enjoy this campaign, you are welcome to join us for the next one.”






        share|improve this answer




















        • It's more like a campaign that I modified after the PCs murdered the original plot, which complicates things as he is already in the campaign. He wants to multiclass. However, I still think your answer is useful and I will use a modified version to try and get him to stop.
          – The electric emerald
          Aug 17 at 3:59






        • 5




          @Theelectricemerald You might want to wait for a day before accepting an answer, it is common practice around here.
          – AntiDrondert
          Aug 17 at 6:56














        up vote
        35
        down vote



        accepted










        “That is the premise of the campaign I’m running. If you don’t think that you can enjoy this campaign, you are welcome to join us for the next one.”






        share|improve this answer




















        • It's more like a campaign that I modified after the PCs murdered the original plot, which complicates things as he is already in the campaign. He wants to multiclass. However, I still think your answer is useful and I will use a modified version to try and get him to stop.
          – The electric emerald
          Aug 17 at 3:59






        • 5




          @Theelectricemerald You might want to wait for a day before accepting an answer, it is common practice around here.
          – AntiDrondert
          Aug 17 at 6:56












        up vote
        35
        down vote



        accepted







        up vote
        35
        down vote



        accepted






        “That is the premise of the campaign I’m running. If you don’t think that you can enjoy this campaign, you are welcome to join us for the next one.”






        share|improve this answer












        “That is the premise of the campaign I’m running. If you don’t think that you can enjoy this campaign, you are welcome to join us for the next one.”







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Aug 17 at 3:55









        mxyzplk♦

        145k21356583




        145k21356583











        • It's more like a campaign that I modified after the PCs murdered the original plot, which complicates things as he is already in the campaign. He wants to multiclass. However, I still think your answer is useful and I will use a modified version to try and get him to stop.
          – The electric emerald
          Aug 17 at 3:59






        • 5




          @Theelectricemerald You might want to wait for a day before accepting an answer, it is common practice around here.
          – AntiDrondert
          Aug 17 at 6:56
















        • It's more like a campaign that I modified after the PCs murdered the original plot, which complicates things as he is already in the campaign. He wants to multiclass. However, I still think your answer is useful and I will use a modified version to try and get him to stop.
          – The electric emerald
          Aug 17 at 3:59






        • 5




          @Theelectricemerald You might want to wait for a day before accepting an answer, it is common practice around here.
          – AntiDrondert
          Aug 17 at 6:56















        It's more like a campaign that I modified after the PCs murdered the original plot, which complicates things as he is already in the campaign. He wants to multiclass. However, I still think your answer is useful and I will use a modified version to try and get him to stop.
        – The electric emerald
        Aug 17 at 3:59




        It's more like a campaign that I modified after the PCs murdered the original plot, which complicates things as he is already in the campaign. He wants to multiclass. However, I still think your answer is useful and I will use a modified version to try and get him to stop.
        – The electric emerald
        Aug 17 at 3:59




        5




        5




        @Theelectricemerald You might want to wait for a day before accepting an answer, it is common practice around here.
        – AntiDrondert
        Aug 17 at 6:56




        @Theelectricemerald You might want to wait for a day before accepting an answer, it is common practice around here.
        – AntiDrondert
        Aug 17 at 6:56












        up vote
        15
        down vote














        The spells of clerics, druids, paladins and rangers are called divine magic. The spell casters' access to the Weave is mediated by a divine power - gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin's oath. ("The Weave of Magic", PHB p. 205)



        Not all divine powers need to be derived from deities. ("Forces and Philosophies", DMG p. 13)




        As discussed here and here among other places, Gods not existing does not necessarily mean Clerics cant cast spells. So your player could be right going by the standard rules.



        However, you as the DM have final say about the world, classes, spells etc. If Clerics simply don't exist in your world just plainly explain this to your player. Just as some races are not available in some campaign settings, Clerics and Paladins are may not be available in yours.
        Before making major alterations to the standard rules though (such as completely removing one or more class options) you should consider if this is entirely necessary. How committed are you to your 'no clerics' rule? How much does your player want to play a Cleric? Would your player settle for another magical class? Is a compromise possible, such as providing a source for Cleric magic that isn't a god ?



        You should also make sure any restrictions of your setting are clear to your players before you start your campaign.



        You could stay firm to your ruling, and are in your right as a DM to do so, but consider, if you have a setting that is 100% to your liking but have no players to enjoy it with, what good is the setting?






        share|improve this answer


























          up vote
          15
          down vote














          The spells of clerics, druids, paladins and rangers are called divine magic. The spell casters' access to the Weave is mediated by a divine power - gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin's oath. ("The Weave of Magic", PHB p. 205)



          Not all divine powers need to be derived from deities. ("Forces and Philosophies", DMG p. 13)




          As discussed here and here among other places, Gods not existing does not necessarily mean Clerics cant cast spells. So your player could be right going by the standard rules.



          However, you as the DM have final say about the world, classes, spells etc. If Clerics simply don't exist in your world just plainly explain this to your player. Just as some races are not available in some campaign settings, Clerics and Paladins are may not be available in yours.
          Before making major alterations to the standard rules though (such as completely removing one or more class options) you should consider if this is entirely necessary. How committed are you to your 'no clerics' rule? How much does your player want to play a Cleric? Would your player settle for another magical class? Is a compromise possible, such as providing a source for Cleric magic that isn't a god ?



          You should also make sure any restrictions of your setting are clear to your players before you start your campaign.



          You could stay firm to your ruling, and are in your right as a DM to do so, but consider, if you have a setting that is 100% to your liking but have no players to enjoy it with, what good is the setting?






          share|improve this answer
























            up vote
            15
            down vote










            up vote
            15
            down vote










            The spells of clerics, druids, paladins and rangers are called divine magic. The spell casters' access to the Weave is mediated by a divine power - gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin's oath. ("The Weave of Magic", PHB p. 205)



            Not all divine powers need to be derived from deities. ("Forces and Philosophies", DMG p. 13)




            As discussed here and here among other places, Gods not existing does not necessarily mean Clerics cant cast spells. So your player could be right going by the standard rules.



            However, you as the DM have final say about the world, classes, spells etc. If Clerics simply don't exist in your world just plainly explain this to your player. Just as some races are not available in some campaign settings, Clerics and Paladins are may not be available in yours.
            Before making major alterations to the standard rules though (such as completely removing one or more class options) you should consider if this is entirely necessary. How committed are you to your 'no clerics' rule? How much does your player want to play a Cleric? Would your player settle for another magical class? Is a compromise possible, such as providing a source for Cleric magic that isn't a god ?



            You should also make sure any restrictions of your setting are clear to your players before you start your campaign.



            You could stay firm to your ruling, and are in your right as a DM to do so, but consider, if you have a setting that is 100% to your liking but have no players to enjoy it with, what good is the setting?






            share|improve this answer















            The spells of clerics, druids, paladins and rangers are called divine magic. The spell casters' access to the Weave is mediated by a divine power - gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin's oath. ("The Weave of Magic", PHB p. 205)



            Not all divine powers need to be derived from deities. ("Forces and Philosophies", DMG p. 13)




            As discussed here and here among other places, Gods not existing does not necessarily mean Clerics cant cast spells. So your player could be right going by the standard rules.



            However, you as the DM have final say about the world, classes, spells etc. If Clerics simply don't exist in your world just plainly explain this to your player. Just as some races are not available in some campaign settings, Clerics and Paladins are may not be available in yours.
            Before making major alterations to the standard rules though (such as completely removing one or more class options) you should consider if this is entirely necessary. How committed are you to your 'no clerics' rule? How much does your player want to play a Cleric? Would your player settle for another magical class? Is a compromise possible, such as providing a source for Cleric magic that isn't a god ?



            You should also make sure any restrictions of your setting are clear to your players before you start your campaign.



            You could stay firm to your ruling, and are in your right as a DM to do so, but consider, if you have a setting that is 100% to your liking but have no players to enjoy it with, what good is the setting?







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited Aug 18 at 20:18









            V2Blast

            13.1k23185




            13.1k23185










            answered Aug 17 at 7:04









            RedTera

            1505




            1505




















                up vote
                6
                down vote













                You kick them out or you work with them



                If you want to run a campaign that has no divine magic, that is fine, you're in your right to do that as a DM and if the player doesn't want to play in that campaign, they can leave. However, in one of the comments you mention that this was an already going campaign, in which case, changing core concepts halfway through is a pretty bad idea©.



                Imagine you are playing a Wizard, and you've been building up to level 6 the entire time in your Necromancy school, expecting some kickass skeletal guards to follow you around. Just when you hit level 6, your DM tells you "Yeah in my campaign, the dead can't come back to life, so you can't do that."



                That's perfectly valid from a "the DM decides the setting" perspective, but it's a huge blow to the player's character concept, and you've essentially just crippled that player's fun because you are making fundemental changes to the rules everybody plays by, without informing people at the time of character creation.



                So my suggestion would be to simply work with the player, the rules suggest that you don't need gods for divine spellcasting to work. Divine spells still work in places that don't allow you to contact your gods such as Ravenloft, so you can easily work something out with your player to allow them to play a Cleric like they imagined, without having gods in your setting.






                share|improve this answer


























                  up vote
                  6
                  down vote













                  You kick them out or you work with them



                  If you want to run a campaign that has no divine magic, that is fine, you're in your right to do that as a DM and if the player doesn't want to play in that campaign, they can leave. However, in one of the comments you mention that this was an already going campaign, in which case, changing core concepts halfway through is a pretty bad idea©.



                  Imagine you are playing a Wizard, and you've been building up to level 6 the entire time in your Necromancy school, expecting some kickass skeletal guards to follow you around. Just when you hit level 6, your DM tells you "Yeah in my campaign, the dead can't come back to life, so you can't do that."



                  That's perfectly valid from a "the DM decides the setting" perspective, but it's a huge blow to the player's character concept, and you've essentially just crippled that player's fun because you are making fundemental changes to the rules everybody plays by, without informing people at the time of character creation.



                  So my suggestion would be to simply work with the player, the rules suggest that you don't need gods for divine spellcasting to work. Divine spells still work in places that don't allow you to contact your gods such as Ravenloft, so you can easily work something out with your player to allow them to play a Cleric like they imagined, without having gods in your setting.






                  share|improve this answer
























                    up vote
                    6
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    6
                    down vote









                    You kick them out or you work with them



                    If you want to run a campaign that has no divine magic, that is fine, you're in your right to do that as a DM and if the player doesn't want to play in that campaign, they can leave. However, in one of the comments you mention that this was an already going campaign, in which case, changing core concepts halfway through is a pretty bad idea©.



                    Imagine you are playing a Wizard, and you've been building up to level 6 the entire time in your Necromancy school, expecting some kickass skeletal guards to follow you around. Just when you hit level 6, your DM tells you "Yeah in my campaign, the dead can't come back to life, so you can't do that."



                    That's perfectly valid from a "the DM decides the setting" perspective, but it's a huge blow to the player's character concept, and you've essentially just crippled that player's fun because you are making fundemental changes to the rules everybody plays by, without informing people at the time of character creation.



                    So my suggestion would be to simply work with the player, the rules suggest that you don't need gods for divine spellcasting to work. Divine spells still work in places that don't allow you to contact your gods such as Ravenloft, so you can easily work something out with your player to allow them to play a Cleric like they imagined, without having gods in your setting.






                    share|improve this answer














                    You kick them out or you work with them



                    If you want to run a campaign that has no divine magic, that is fine, you're in your right to do that as a DM and if the player doesn't want to play in that campaign, they can leave. However, in one of the comments you mention that this was an already going campaign, in which case, changing core concepts halfway through is a pretty bad idea©.



                    Imagine you are playing a Wizard, and you've been building up to level 6 the entire time in your Necromancy school, expecting some kickass skeletal guards to follow you around. Just when you hit level 6, your DM tells you "Yeah in my campaign, the dead can't come back to life, so you can't do that."



                    That's perfectly valid from a "the DM decides the setting" perspective, but it's a huge blow to the player's character concept, and you've essentially just crippled that player's fun because you are making fundemental changes to the rules everybody plays by, without informing people at the time of character creation.



                    So my suggestion would be to simply work with the player, the rules suggest that you don't need gods for divine spellcasting to work. Divine spells still work in places that don't allow you to contact your gods such as Ravenloft, so you can easily work something out with your player to allow them to play a Cleric like they imagined, without having gods in your setting.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited Aug 17 at 18:37









                    V2Blast

                    13.1k23185




                    13.1k23185










                    answered Aug 17 at 7:16









                    Theik

                    7,0372849




                    7,0372849




















                        up vote
                        -2
                        down vote














                        I have tried reasoning with him




                        That's your first mistake! You're the GM, if you say they do, they do.



                        However, as a side note, I would hope that you've compensated the Cleric class in some other way for their inability to cast spells. He may (justifiably) now feel that it's no fun playing his character, and if this is the case, it's definitely something you need to address.






                        share|improve this answer
























                          up vote
                          -2
                          down vote














                          I have tried reasoning with him




                          That's your first mistake! You're the GM, if you say they do, they do.



                          However, as a side note, I would hope that you've compensated the Cleric class in some other way for their inability to cast spells. He may (justifiably) now feel that it's no fun playing his character, and if this is the case, it's definitely something you need to address.






                          share|improve this answer






















                            up vote
                            -2
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            -2
                            down vote










                            I have tried reasoning with him




                            That's your first mistake! You're the GM, if you say they do, they do.



                            However, as a side note, I would hope that you've compensated the Cleric class in some other way for their inability to cast spells. He may (justifiably) now feel that it's no fun playing his character, and if this is the case, it's definitely something you need to address.






                            share|improve this answer













                            I have tried reasoning with him




                            That's your first mistake! You're the GM, if you say they do, they do.



                            However, as a side note, I would hope that you've compensated the Cleric class in some other way for their inability to cast spells. He may (justifiably) now feel that it's no fun playing his character, and if this is the case, it's definitely something you need to address.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered Aug 17 at 13:23









                            colmde

                            63255




                            63255












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