Proving by $epsilon-delta$ definition that $lim_(x,y) to (0,0) fracxy$ does not exist.

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I want to show, by $epsilon-delta$ definition that $$lim_(x,y) to (0,0) fracxyneq L, forall L in mathbbR$$



(Here I am disconsidering infinite limits)



My attempt:



We must show that for every $L$ real exists $epsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$, there is $(x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|fracxy-L|geq epsilon$



Let $L in mathbbR$



Consider $epsilon = 1>0$



Let $delta>0$.
First consider $(x,y)=(0,fracdelta2)$



$||(0,fracdelta2)-(0,0)|| = ||(0,fracdelta2)|| = sqrtfracdelta2^2=|fracdelta2|=fracdelta2<delta$



$|fracxy-L| = |0-L| = |L|$



Then if $|L|geq1=epsilon$, it is done.



So in this case we already found $(x,y)$ such that the limit is not a real number.



Suppose $|L|<1$.



$(x,y) = bigg(L,dfracLL+1bigg)$ is such that



$|fracxy-L|=epsilon$, but I am failing to show that $||(x,y)||<delta$ in this case.



Is this making sense until here? How could I finish this proof? Thanks.
Thanks







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  • 2




    This is so much more complicated than needed, seemingly with the goal of losing all intuition about the situation... Why not simply consider limits along the lines $x=0$ and $x=y$ and conclude right away?
    – Did
    Aug 23 at 6:16










  • Because I specifically need a proof by the negation of $epsilon-delta$ definiton. My problem is mainly related to logic.
    – dude3221
    Aug 23 at 16:15














up vote
0
down vote

favorite












I want to show, by $epsilon-delta$ definition that $$lim_(x,y) to (0,0) fracxyneq L, forall L in mathbbR$$



(Here I am disconsidering infinite limits)



My attempt:



We must show that for every $L$ real exists $epsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$, there is $(x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|fracxy-L|geq epsilon$



Let $L in mathbbR$



Consider $epsilon = 1>0$



Let $delta>0$.
First consider $(x,y)=(0,fracdelta2)$



$||(0,fracdelta2)-(0,0)|| = ||(0,fracdelta2)|| = sqrtfracdelta2^2=|fracdelta2|=fracdelta2<delta$



$|fracxy-L| = |0-L| = |L|$



Then if $|L|geq1=epsilon$, it is done.



So in this case we already found $(x,y)$ such that the limit is not a real number.



Suppose $|L|<1$.



$(x,y) = bigg(L,dfracLL+1bigg)$ is such that



$|fracxy-L|=epsilon$, but I am failing to show that $||(x,y)||<delta$ in this case.



Is this making sense until here? How could I finish this proof? Thanks.
Thanks







share|cite|improve this question
















  • 2




    This is so much more complicated than needed, seemingly with the goal of losing all intuition about the situation... Why not simply consider limits along the lines $x=0$ and $x=y$ and conclude right away?
    – Did
    Aug 23 at 6:16










  • Because I specifically need a proof by the negation of $epsilon-delta$ definiton. My problem is mainly related to logic.
    – dude3221
    Aug 23 at 16:15












up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite











I want to show, by $epsilon-delta$ definition that $$lim_(x,y) to (0,0) fracxyneq L, forall L in mathbbR$$



(Here I am disconsidering infinite limits)



My attempt:



We must show that for every $L$ real exists $epsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$, there is $(x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|fracxy-L|geq epsilon$



Let $L in mathbbR$



Consider $epsilon = 1>0$



Let $delta>0$.
First consider $(x,y)=(0,fracdelta2)$



$||(0,fracdelta2)-(0,0)|| = ||(0,fracdelta2)|| = sqrtfracdelta2^2=|fracdelta2|=fracdelta2<delta$



$|fracxy-L| = |0-L| = |L|$



Then if $|L|geq1=epsilon$, it is done.



So in this case we already found $(x,y)$ such that the limit is not a real number.



Suppose $|L|<1$.



$(x,y) = bigg(L,dfracLL+1bigg)$ is such that



$|fracxy-L|=epsilon$, but I am failing to show that $||(x,y)||<delta$ in this case.



Is this making sense until here? How could I finish this proof? Thanks.
Thanks







share|cite|improve this question












I want to show, by $epsilon-delta$ definition that $$lim_(x,y) to (0,0) fracxyneq L, forall L in mathbbR$$



(Here I am disconsidering infinite limits)



My attempt:



We must show that for every $L$ real exists $epsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$, there is $(x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|fracxy-L|geq epsilon$



Let $L in mathbbR$



Consider $epsilon = 1>0$



Let $delta>0$.
First consider $(x,y)=(0,fracdelta2)$



$||(0,fracdelta2)-(0,0)|| = ||(0,fracdelta2)|| = sqrtfracdelta2^2=|fracdelta2|=fracdelta2<delta$



$|fracxy-L| = |0-L| = |L|$



Then if $|L|geq1=epsilon$, it is done.



So in this case we already found $(x,y)$ such that the limit is not a real number.



Suppose $|L|<1$.



$(x,y) = bigg(L,dfracLL+1bigg)$ is such that



$|fracxy-L|=epsilon$, but I am failing to show that $||(x,y)||<delta$ in this case.



Is this making sense until here? How could I finish this proof? Thanks.
Thanks









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share|cite|improve this question










asked Aug 23 at 4:14









dude3221

34213




34213







  • 2




    This is so much more complicated than needed, seemingly with the goal of losing all intuition about the situation... Why not simply consider limits along the lines $x=0$ and $x=y$ and conclude right away?
    – Did
    Aug 23 at 6:16










  • Because I specifically need a proof by the negation of $epsilon-delta$ definiton. My problem is mainly related to logic.
    – dude3221
    Aug 23 at 16:15












  • 2




    This is so much more complicated than needed, seemingly with the goal of losing all intuition about the situation... Why not simply consider limits along the lines $x=0$ and $x=y$ and conclude right away?
    – Did
    Aug 23 at 6:16










  • Because I specifically need a proof by the negation of $epsilon-delta$ definiton. My problem is mainly related to logic.
    – dude3221
    Aug 23 at 16:15







2




2




This is so much more complicated than needed, seemingly with the goal of losing all intuition about the situation... Why not simply consider limits along the lines $x=0$ and $x=y$ and conclude right away?
– Did
Aug 23 at 6:16




This is so much more complicated than needed, seemingly with the goal of losing all intuition about the situation... Why not simply consider limits along the lines $x=0$ and $x=y$ and conclude right away?
– Did
Aug 23 at 6:16












Because I specifically need a proof by the negation of $epsilon-delta$ definiton. My problem is mainly related to logic.
– dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:15




Because I specifically need a proof by the negation of $epsilon-delta$ definiton. My problem is mainly related to logic.
– dude3221
Aug 23 at 16:15










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
1
down vote



accepted










Suppose the limit is $L$.



Then there exists $delta>0$ such that, for $0<sqrtx^2+y^2<delta$ (with $yne0$),
$$
left|fracxy-Lright|<1
$$
that is,
$$
L-1<fracxy<L+1
$$
Note that $x/y$ takes on both positive and negative values in the specified range, so it's necessarily $L-1<0$ and $L+1>0$, hence $-1<L<1$. In particular, $x/y<2$.



Now it's just a matter of finding $x$ and $y$ so that $0<x^2+y^2<delta^2$ and $x/y>2$.



Choose $y=tx$, with $x>0$: we need $(1+t^2)x^2<delta^2$ and $2t<1$. So we can use
$$
t=frac13
qquad
x=frac12fracdeltasqrt1+(1/3)^2
$$
to falsify $0<x/y<2$.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
    – dude3221
    Aug 23 at 16:23










  • @dude3221 What do you mean by “direct proof” of a false statement?
    – egreg
    Aug 23 at 16:51










  • Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
    – dude3221
    Aug 23 at 16:58

















up vote
0
down vote













Assume that $Lne 1$ and take the line $(x,x)$ to get contradiction. Next assume $L=1$ and take the line $(0,y)$ to get another contradiction.






share|cite|improve this answer



























    up vote
    0
    down vote













    (Concerning your attempt Did's comment says it all.



    The sequence $$bf z_n:=left(1over n,(-1)^nover nright)qquad(ngeq1)$$ converges to $(0,0)$, but the function values
    $f(bf z_n)=displaystylex_nover y_n=(-1)^n$
    have no limit in $mathbb Rcuppminfty$.






    share|cite|improve this answer




















      Your Answer




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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      1
      down vote



      accepted










      Suppose the limit is $L$.



      Then there exists $delta>0$ such that, for $0<sqrtx^2+y^2<delta$ (with $yne0$),
      $$
      left|fracxy-Lright|<1
      $$
      that is,
      $$
      L-1<fracxy<L+1
      $$
      Note that $x/y$ takes on both positive and negative values in the specified range, so it's necessarily $L-1<0$ and $L+1>0$, hence $-1<L<1$. In particular, $x/y<2$.



      Now it's just a matter of finding $x$ and $y$ so that $0<x^2+y^2<delta^2$ and $x/y>2$.



      Choose $y=tx$, with $x>0$: we need $(1+t^2)x^2<delta^2$ and $2t<1$. So we can use
      $$
      t=frac13
      qquad
      x=frac12fracdeltasqrt1+(1/3)^2
      $$
      to falsify $0<x/y<2$.






      share|cite|improve this answer




















      • This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
        – dude3221
        Aug 23 at 16:23










      • @dude3221 What do you mean by “direct proof” of a false statement?
        – egreg
        Aug 23 at 16:51










      • Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
        – dude3221
        Aug 23 at 16:58














      up vote
      1
      down vote



      accepted










      Suppose the limit is $L$.



      Then there exists $delta>0$ such that, for $0<sqrtx^2+y^2<delta$ (with $yne0$),
      $$
      left|fracxy-Lright|<1
      $$
      that is,
      $$
      L-1<fracxy<L+1
      $$
      Note that $x/y$ takes on both positive and negative values in the specified range, so it's necessarily $L-1<0$ and $L+1>0$, hence $-1<L<1$. In particular, $x/y<2$.



      Now it's just a matter of finding $x$ and $y$ so that $0<x^2+y^2<delta^2$ and $x/y>2$.



      Choose $y=tx$, with $x>0$: we need $(1+t^2)x^2<delta^2$ and $2t<1$. So we can use
      $$
      t=frac13
      qquad
      x=frac12fracdeltasqrt1+(1/3)^2
      $$
      to falsify $0<x/y<2$.






      share|cite|improve this answer




















      • This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
        – dude3221
        Aug 23 at 16:23










      • @dude3221 What do you mean by “direct proof” of a false statement?
        – egreg
        Aug 23 at 16:51










      • Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
        – dude3221
        Aug 23 at 16:58












      up vote
      1
      down vote



      accepted







      up vote
      1
      down vote



      accepted






      Suppose the limit is $L$.



      Then there exists $delta>0$ such that, for $0<sqrtx^2+y^2<delta$ (with $yne0$),
      $$
      left|fracxy-Lright|<1
      $$
      that is,
      $$
      L-1<fracxy<L+1
      $$
      Note that $x/y$ takes on both positive and negative values in the specified range, so it's necessarily $L-1<0$ and $L+1>0$, hence $-1<L<1$. In particular, $x/y<2$.



      Now it's just a matter of finding $x$ and $y$ so that $0<x^2+y^2<delta^2$ and $x/y>2$.



      Choose $y=tx$, with $x>0$: we need $(1+t^2)x^2<delta^2$ and $2t<1$. So we can use
      $$
      t=frac13
      qquad
      x=frac12fracdeltasqrt1+(1/3)^2
      $$
      to falsify $0<x/y<2$.






      share|cite|improve this answer












      Suppose the limit is $L$.



      Then there exists $delta>0$ such that, for $0<sqrtx^2+y^2<delta$ (with $yne0$),
      $$
      left|fracxy-Lright|<1
      $$
      that is,
      $$
      L-1<fracxy<L+1
      $$
      Note that $x/y$ takes on both positive and negative values in the specified range, so it's necessarily $L-1<0$ and $L+1>0$, hence $-1<L<1$. In particular, $x/y<2$.



      Now it's just a matter of finding $x$ and $y$ so that $0<x^2+y^2<delta^2$ and $x/y>2$.



      Choose $y=tx$, with $x>0$: we need $(1+t^2)x^2<delta^2$ and $2t<1$. So we can use
      $$
      t=frac13
      qquad
      x=frac12fracdeltasqrt1+(1/3)^2
      $$
      to falsify $0<x/y<2$.







      share|cite|improve this answer












      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer










      answered Aug 23 at 9:07









      egreg

      165k1180187




      165k1180187











      • This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
        – dude3221
        Aug 23 at 16:23










      • @dude3221 What do you mean by “direct proof” of a false statement?
        – egreg
        Aug 23 at 16:51










      • Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
        – dude3221
        Aug 23 at 16:58
















      • This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
        – dude3221
        Aug 23 at 16:23










      • @dude3221 What do you mean by “direct proof” of a false statement?
        – egreg
        Aug 23 at 16:51










      • Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
        – dude3221
        Aug 23 at 16:58















      This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
      – dude3221
      Aug 23 at 16:23




      This is a proof by contradiction, right? I'm needing to prove directly the negation. I think I can use your answer to write it.
      – dude3221
      Aug 23 at 16:23












      @dude3221 What do you mean by “direct proof” of a false statement?
      – egreg
      Aug 23 at 16:51




      @dude3221 What do you mean by “direct proof” of a false statement?
      – egreg
      Aug 23 at 16:51












      Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
      – dude3221
      Aug 23 at 16:58




      Direct proof of a negation. Prove that $exists epsilon>0$ such that $forall delta > 0$ $exists (x,y)$ such that $||(x,y)-(0,0)||<delta$ and $|x/y - L|geq epsilon$. But I think is almost the same as you did by contradiciton, just need to rewrite things, right? Looks fine to me. I'll accept your answer, thanks.
      – dude3221
      Aug 23 at 16:58










      up vote
      0
      down vote













      Assume that $Lne 1$ and take the line $(x,x)$ to get contradiction. Next assume $L=1$ and take the line $(0,y)$ to get another contradiction.






      share|cite|improve this answer
























        up vote
        0
        down vote













        Assume that $Lne 1$ and take the line $(x,x)$ to get contradiction. Next assume $L=1$ and take the line $(0,y)$ to get another contradiction.






        share|cite|improve this answer






















          up vote
          0
          down vote










          up vote
          0
          down vote









          Assume that $Lne 1$ and take the line $(x,x)$ to get contradiction. Next assume $L=1$ and take the line $(0,y)$ to get another contradiction.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          Assume that $Lne 1$ and take the line $(x,x)$ to get contradiction. Next assume $L=1$ and take the line $(0,y)$ to get another contradiction.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Aug 23 at 7:50









          Holo

          4,3052629




          4,3052629




















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              (Concerning your attempt Did's comment says it all.



              The sequence $$bf z_n:=left(1over n,(-1)^nover nright)qquad(ngeq1)$$ converges to $(0,0)$, but the function values
              $f(bf z_n)=displaystylex_nover y_n=(-1)^n$
              have no limit in $mathbb Rcuppminfty$.






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                (Concerning your attempt Did's comment says it all.



                The sequence $$bf z_n:=left(1over n,(-1)^nover nright)qquad(ngeq1)$$ converges to $(0,0)$, but the function values
                $f(bf z_n)=displaystylex_nover y_n=(-1)^n$
                have no limit in $mathbb Rcuppminfty$.






                share|cite|improve this answer






















                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  (Concerning your attempt Did's comment says it all.



                  The sequence $$bf z_n:=left(1over n,(-1)^nover nright)qquad(ngeq1)$$ converges to $(0,0)$, but the function values
                  $f(bf z_n)=displaystylex_nover y_n=(-1)^n$
                  have no limit in $mathbb Rcuppminfty$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  (Concerning your attempt Did's comment says it all.



                  The sequence $$bf z_n:=left(1over n,(-1)^nover nright)qquad(ngeq1)$$ converges to $(0,0)$, but the function values
                  $f(bf z_n)=displaystylex_nover y_n=(-1)^n$
                  have no limit in $mathbb Rcuppminfty$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Aug 23 at 8:46









                  Christian Blatter

                  165k7109310




                  165k7109310



























                       

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