Can we factor multivariate polynomial $x+xy+y$?

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
-1
down vote

favorite












It seems to me we can only get $x(1+y)+y$ or $x+(x+1)y$, but maybe something better is possible with complex numbers?



It has zeros at $y=-fracxx+1$, but how to use that fact?







share|cite|improve this question


















  • 6




    What makes you think it's factorable?
    – quasi
    Aug 23 at 5:58






  • 1




    You may also write a useful expression $(x+1)(y+1)-1$ which is not a factorization
    – Mostafa Ayaz
    Aug 23 at 6:51










  • @quasi I was first going to ask the more general Are multivariate polynomials fully factorable?. I think you're saying no.
    – hyperpallium
    Aug 23 at 7:06






  • 1




    @hyperpallium: Depending on the choice of allowable coefficients, some multivariate polynomials factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials, some do not.
    – quasi
    Aug 23 at 13:08














up vote
-1
down vote

favorite












It seems to me we can only get $x(1+y)+y$ or $x+(x+1)y$, but maybe something better is possible with complex numbers?



It has zeros at $y=-fracxx+1$, but how to use that fact?







share|cite|improve this question


















  • 6




    What makes you think it's factorable?
    – quasi
    Aug 23 at 5:58






  • 1




    You may also write a useful expression $(x+1)(y+1)-1$ which is not a factorization
    – Mostafa Ayaz
    Aug 23 at 6:51










  • @quasi I was first going to ask the more general Are multivariate polynomials fully factorable?. I think you're saying no.
    – hyperpallium
    Aug 23 at 7:06






  • 1




    @hyperpallium: Depending on the choice of allowable coefficients, some multivariate polynomials factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials, some do not.
    – quasi
    Aug 23 at 13:08












up vote
-1
down vote

favorite









up vote
-1
down vote

favorite











It seems to me we can only get $x(1+y)+y$ or $x+(x+1)y$, but maybe something better is possible with complex numbers?



It has zeros at $y=-fracxx+1$, but how to use that fact?







share|cite|improve this question














It seems to me we can only get $x(1+y)+y$ or $x+(x+1)y$, but maybe something better is possible with complex numbers?



It has zeros at $y=-fracxx+1$, but how to use that fact?









share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Aug 23 at 7:08

























asked Aug 23 at 5:55









hyperpallium

406313




406313







  • 6




    What makes you think it's factorable?
    – quasi
    Aug 23 at 5:58






  • 1




    You may also write a useful expression $(x+1)(y+1)-1$ which is not a factorization
    – Mostafa Ayaz
    Aug 23 at 6:51










  • @quasi I was first going to ask the more general Are multivariate polynomials fully factorable?. I think you're saying no.
    – hyperpallium
    Aug 23 at 7:06






  • 1




    @hyperpallium: Depending on the choice of allowable coefficients, some multivariate polynomials factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials, some do not.
    – quasi
    Aug 23 at 13:08












  • 6




    What makes you think it's factorable?
    – quasi
    Aug 23 at 5:58






  • 1




    You may also write a useful expression $(x+1)(y+1)-1$ which is not a factorization
    – Mostafa Ayaz
    Aug 23 at 6:51










  • @quasi I was first going to ask the more general Are multivariate polynomials fully factorable?. I think you're saying no.
    – hyperpallium
    Aug 23 at 7:06






  • 1




    @hyperpallium: Depending on the choice of allowable coefficients, some multivariate polynomials factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials, some do not.
    – quasi
    Aug 23 at 13:08







6




6




What makes you think it's factorable?
– quasi
Aug 23 at 5:58




What makes you think it's factorable?
– quasi
Aug 23 at 5:58




1




1




You may also write a useful expression $(x+1)(y+1)-1$ which is not a factorization
– Mostafa Ayaz
Aug 23 at 6:51




You may also write a useful expression $(x+1)(y+1)-1$ which is not a factorization
– Mostafa Ayaz
Aug 23 at 6:51












@quasi I was first going to ask the more general Are multivariate polynomials fully factorable?. I think you're saying no.
– hyperpallium
Aug 23 at 7:06




@quasi I was first going to ask the more general Are multivariate polynomials fully factorable?. I think you're saying no.
– hyperpallium
Aug 23 at 7:06




1




1




@hyperpallium: Depending on the choice of allowable coefficients, some multivariate polynomials factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials, some do not.
– quasi
Aug 23 at 13:08




@hyperpallium: Depending on the choice of allowable coefficients, some multivariate polynomials factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials, some do not.
– quasi
Aug 23 at 13:08










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
1
down vote













One way to use your identification of the zeros is to note that any factor of the polynomial would have to vanish only at those zeros, so nothing of the form $ax+by+c$ will do. You could try dividing out a factor of $y+fracxx+1$ (if you don't mind non-polynomial factor)s; but what would happen if you did? The other factor would be $x+1$; and now you can see what's gone wrong. When $x=-1$, $x+xy+y=-1ne 0$, but the factors are $0$ and undefined. So no, there's no sensible way to factorise $x+xy+y$. (I say "sensible" because of course we can take a constant factor out, but that's uninteresting.)






share|cite|improve this answer



























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    A possible factorization is :



    $beginalignx+xy+y &=x+xy+y+1-1\ &=x(y+1)+(y+1)-1 \ &=(x+1)(y+1)-1 \ &=left(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)right)^2-1^2 ,textassuming $x,y gt -1$ \ &=left(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)+1right)cdotleft(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)-1right)endalign$






    share|cite|improve this answer



























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Depending on the choice of allowable coefficients, some multivariate polynomials factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials, some do not.



      For example:



      • With rational coefficicients, $x^2-y^2$ factors as $x^2-y^2=(x+y)(x-y)$.$\[6pt]$

      • Allowing real coefficients, $x^2-2y^2$ factors as $x^2-2y^2=left(x+ysqrt2right)left(x-ysqrt2right)$.$\[6pt]$

      • Allowing arbitrary complex coefficients, $x^2+y^2$ factors as $x^2+y^2=(x+yi)(x-yi)$.$\[6pt]$

      However, even with arbitrary complex coefficients, $x+xy+y$ doesn't factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials.






      share|cite|improve this answer




















        Your Answer




        StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
        return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
        StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
        StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
        );
        );
        , "mathjax-editing");

        StackExchange.ready(function()
        var channelOptions =
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "69"
        ;
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
        createEditor();
        );

        else
        createEditor();

        );

        function createEditor()
        StackExchange.prepareEditor(
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        convertImagesToLinks: true,
        noModals: false,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: 10,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        );



        );













         

        draft saved


        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function ()
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2891748%2fcan-we-factor-multivariate-polynomial-xxyy%23new-answer', 'question_page');

        );

        Post as a guest






























        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes








        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes








        up vote
        1
        down vote













        One way to use your identification of the zeros is to note that any factor of the polynomial would have to vanish only at those zeros, so nothing of the form $ax+by+c$ will do. You could try dividing out a factor of $y+fracxx+1$ (if you don't mind non-polynomial factor)s; but what would happen if you did? The other factor would be $x+1$; and now you can see what's gone wrong. When $x=-1$, $x+xy+y=-1ne 0$, but the factors are $0$ and undefined. So no, there's no sensible way to factorise $x+xy+y$. (I say "sensible" because of course we can take a constant factor out, but that's uninteresting.)






        share|cite|improve this answer
























          up vote
          1
          down vote













          One way to use your identification of the zeros is to note that any factor of the polynomial would have to vanish only at those zeros, so nothing of the form $ax+by+c$ will do. You could try dividing out a factor of $y+fracxx+1$ (if you don't mind non-polynomial factor)s; but what would happen if you did? The other factor would be $x+1$; and now you can see what's gone wrong. When $x=-1$, $x+xy+y=-1ne 0$, but the factors are $0$ and undefined. So no, there's no sensible way to factorise $x+xy+y$. (I say "sensible" because of course we can take a constant factor out, but that's uninteresting.)






          share|cite|improve this answer






















            up vote
            1
            down vote










            up vote
            1
            down vote









            One way to use your identification of the zeros is to note that any factor of the polynomial would have to vanish only at those zeros, so nothing of the form $ax+by+c$ will do. You could try dividing out a factor of $y+fracxx+1$ (if you don't mind non-polynomial factor)s; but what would happen if you did? The other factor would be $x+1$; and now you can see what's gone wrong. When $x=-1$, $x+xy+y=-1ne 0$, but the factors are $0$ and undefined. So no, there's no sensible way to factorise $x+xy+y$. (I say "sensible" because of course we can take a constant factor out, but that's uninteresting.)






            share|cite|improve this answer












            One way to use your identification of the zeros is to note that any factor of the polynomial would have to vanish only at those zeros, so nothing of the form $ax+by+c$ will do. You could try dividing out a factor of $y+fracxx+1$ (if you don't mind non-polynomial factor)s; but what would happen if you did? The other factor would be $x+1$; and now you can see what's gone wrong. When $x=-1$, $x+xy+y=-1ne 0$, but the factors are $0$ and undefined. So no, there's no sensible way to factorise $x+xy+y$. (I say "sensible" because of course we can take a constant factor out, but that's uninteresting.)







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Aug 23 at 7:16









            J.G.

            14k11425




            14k11425




















                up vote
                1
                down vote













                A possible factorization is :



                $beginalignx+xy+y &=x+xy+y+1-1\ &=x(y+1)+(y+1)-1 \ &=(x+1)(y+1)-1 \ &=left(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)right)^2-1^2 ,textassuming $x,y gt -1$ \ &=left(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)+1right)cdotleft(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)-1right)endalign$






                share|cite|improve this answer
























                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote













                  A possible factorization is :



                  $beginalignx+xy+y &=x+xy+y+1-1\ &=x(y+1)+(y+1)-1 \ &=(x+1)(y+1)-1 \ &=left(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)right)^2-1^2 ,textassuming $x,y gt -1$ \ &=left(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)+1right)cdotleft(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)-1right)endalign$






                  share|cite|improve this answer






















                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote









                    A possible factorization is :



                    $beginalignx+xy+y &=x+xy+y+1-1\ &=x(y+1)+(y+1)-1 \ &=(x+1)(y+1)-1 \ &=left(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)right)^2-1^2 ,textassuming $x,y gt -1$ \ &=left(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)+1right)cdotleft(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)-1right)endalign$






                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    A possible factorization is :



                    $beginalignx+xy+y &=x+xy+y+1-1\ &=x(y+1)+(y+1)-1 \ &=(x+1)(y+1)-1 \ &=left(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)right)^2-1^2 ,textassuming $x,y gt -1$ \ &=left(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)+1right)cdotleft(sqrt(x+1)(y+1)-1right)endalign$







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Aug 23 at 9:54









                    Arjun Banerjee

                    1115




                    1115




















                        up vote
                        1
                        down vote













                        Depending on the choice of allowable coefficients, some multivariate polynomials factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials, some do not.



                        For example:



                        • With rational coefficicients, $x^2-y^2$ factors as $x^2-y^2=(x+y)(x-y)$.$\[6pt]$

                        • Allowing real coefficients, $x^2-2y^2$ factors as $x^2-2y^2=left(x+ysqrt2right)left(x-ysqrt2right)$.$\[6pt]$

                        • Allowing arbitrary complex coefficients, $x^2+y^2$ factors as $x^2+y^2=(x+yi)(x-yi)$.$\[6pt]$

                        However, even with arbitrary complex coefficients, $x+xy+y$ doesn't factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials.






                        share|cite|improve this answer
























                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          Depending on the choice of allowable coefficients, some multivariate polynomials factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials, some do not.



                          For example:



                          • With rational coefficicients, $x^2-y^2$ factors as $x^2-y^2=(x+y)(x-y)$.$\[6pt]$

                          • Allowing real coefficients, $x^2-2y^2$ factors as $x^2-2y^2=left(x+ysqrt2right)left(x-ysqrt2right)$.$\[6pt]$

                          • Allowing arbitrary complex coefficients, $x^2+y^2$ factors as $x^2+y^2=(x+yi)(x-yi)$.$\[6pt]$

                          However, even with arbitrary complex coefficients, $x+xy+y$ doesn't factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials.






                          share|cite|improve this answer






















                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote









                            Depending on the choice of allowable coefficients, some multivariate polynomials factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials, some do not.



                            For example:



                            • With rational coefficicients, $x^2-y^2$ factors as $x^2-y^2=(x+y)(x-y)$.$\[6pt]$

                            • Allowing real coefficients, $x^2-2y^2$ factors as $x^2-2y^2=left(x+ysqrt2right)left(x-ysqrt2right)$.$\[6pt]$

                            • Allowing arbitrary complex coefficients, $x^2+y^2$ factors as $x^2+y^2=(x+yi)(x-yi)$.$\[6pt]$

                            However, even with arbitrary complex coefficients, $x+xy+y$ doesn't factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials.






                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            Depending on the choice of allowable coefficients, some multivariate polynomials factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials, some do not.



                            For example:



                            • With rational coefficicients, $x^2-y^2$ factors as $x^2-y^2=(x+y)(x-y)$.$\[6pt]$

                            • Allowing real coefficients, $x^2-2y^2$ factors as $x^2-2y^2=left(x+ysqrt2right)left(x-ysqrt2right)$.$\[6pt]$

                            • Allowing arbitrary complex coefficients, $x^2+y^2$ factors as $x^2+y^2=(x+yi)(x-yi)$.$\[6pt]$

                            However, even with arbitrary complex coefficients, $x+xy+y$ doesn't factor as a product of two non-constant polynomials.







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered Aug 23 at 13:06









                            quasi

                            33.9k22461




                            33.9k22461



























                                 

                                draft saved


                                draft discarded















































                                 


                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function ()
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2891748%2fcan-we-factor-multivariate-polynomial-xxyy%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                );

                                Post as a guest













































































                                這個網誌中的熱門文章

                                Is there any way to eliminate the singular point to solve this integral by hand or by approximations?

                                Why am i infinitely getting the same tweet with the Twitter Search API?

                                Carbon dioxide